Still trying to wrap my brain around the math... - PassPorter - A Community of Walt Disney World, Disneyland, Disney Cruise Line, and General Travel Forums
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Say we bought Saratoga Springs, 150 points, and say, for the sake of argument that we paid cash ([img]/ubb/images/graemlins/ukid.gif[/img][img]/ubb/images/graemlins/rofl2.gif[/img]). With the current dues (providing they never increased, which I know they do) and if we got 48 years out of it (we're 41), we would have invested $875/year in lodging at WDW. Wouldn't it be better to take that $875 and invest it in something and use it to pay for a room instead? Certainly the discounts (esp if one has an AP) aren't enough to justify the expense? I'm so [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]!
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
Ok-- you sound like my husband. I've been trying to talk him into the DVC. Last summer we talked to a rep in Disney, and he made sense out of it all, but I can't exactly remember what he said. I know someone will come by with the explanation. I'm glad you asked this, because I need to justify this investment to my husband.
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Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
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Wouldn't it be better to take that $875 and invest it in something and use it to pay for a room instead? Certainly the discounts (esp if one has an AP) aren't enough to justify the expense? I'm so [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]!
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150 points is sufficient to get you 10 consecutive nights in a Studio room per year during the two cheapest seasons. The current rack rate for that room is $269 per night plus 11.5% tax. In other words, if you paid the full cash rate for those same 10 nights, it would cost you $2999.35 per year vs. your $875 figure with DVC. Yes, you could assume some discounting with APs, but those discounts have quite a few pitfalls:
1. They aren't offered during all times of the year.
2. They are usually announced on very short notice (for example, current AP discounts only run through June 3, '06--no codes have been announced for 6/4 and after, which is less than 4 weeks off)
3. They are not nearly as beneficial as the 70% DVC vs. cash "discount" illustrated above.
4. There is no guarantee as what / where / when / how AP discounts will appear in the future. By comparison, the entire purpose of DVC is to lock-in your prices NOW for the next 50 years.
5. The number of rooms offered at the discounted rate is often quite small--particularly at the Deluxe and DVC resorts. From what I've heard, many people are unable to get their desired room within HOURS of the codes being published.
Certainly there are ways to vacation at Disney--even stay at a Disney-owned resort--for less money. But if you truly want to do an apples-to-apples comparison, you need to compare to cash rates at the DVC or Deluxe resorts. Sure you could get an All-Star room for 10 nights for your $900 per year, but there's a reason that All-Stars are priced around $80 per night wile Deluxe resorts start at $250.
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
I think Tim's given you an excellent explanation there Dawn and has hit the nail on the head with his comparison between the All Stars and deluxe resorts. DVC accommodation is deluxe, but it's one step further than that - it's home away from home, meaning that even in the studios, you get a small kitchenette, while in the one bedroom villa, there are many other advantages, such as a washer / dryer, spa bath and a full kitchen. Having seen the cash rates that Disney charge for these accommodations, I know we're getting a good deal.
What I like is once you've paid upfront, all you have to pay is your annual dues each year and that's it. We've budgeted for those each year and now all we have to pay for each time we go to Disney are our flights, car rental and park passes. That's a lot less money than we were paying before and that means that we can afford more Disney vacations.
It's also opened up a whole new world of opportunities for us. We've taken a three night Disney cruise on our points and we'd never have been able to afford to pay cash for that. We've stayed in the Hotel del Coronado in San Diego, the Disneyland Hotel - concierge for two nights and the Fairmont in San Francisco. Had we been paying cash, we would've gone for far cheaper alternatives and would never have experienced such luxury, so for us, it's been an excellent investment - and we've still got many many years of vacations to come as well. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
I recently went through exactly the same process and eventually decided in favour of DVC. I bought 150 points to 'test the water'. This is my logic.
1. Although the annual dues do increase each year, so does the price of booking resorts. Who knows how much it will cost in the future.
2. We plan, at least in the early years, of paying cash for weekend rooms (with annual pass discounts hopefully) and using DVC Sunday to Thursday. We could possibly get 3 holidays a year out of DVC by doing it that way.
3. Whilst I wouldn't suggest that DVC should be viewed as an investment, it does at least have a good re-sale value compared to other timeshares. So if it doesn't work out, you can recoup a fair proportion of your initial investment. I think this needs to be factored in when doing the sums.
4. I don't think you ever will make the figures add up. I am the most analytical person (it took almost 3 months for me to make the decision) but in the end I made a decision with my heart, not my head. Having scoured the boards (not just passporter) I couldn't find anyone who said they regretted buying into DVC - quite the opposite, the only regret seemed to be that they hadn't bought more points.
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
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150 points is sufficient to get you 10 consecutive nights in a Studio room per year during the two cheapest seasons. The current rack rate for that room is $269 per night plus 11.5% tax. In other words, if you paid the full cash rate for those same 10 nights, it would cost you $2999.35 per year vs. your $875 figure with DVC.
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I do see what you are saying, but you are also locking yourself into certain accomodations (I couldn't get 10 nights at AKL for 150 pts!), having to plan far in advance at times, and having to pay those dues even if financial things aren't going so well. I know you can rent your points, too, but that seems like a hassle.
As much as I would love to have my lodging "pre-paid", I'm just not sure what kind of investment it would be.
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
Yes you're limited to certain resorts but they're great resorts. It sounds like you have your mind made up and don't need convincing. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] You definitely want more flexibility in choosing your resorts. Doesn't sound to me like it's about money saved for you as much as it's about choices. So it definitley wouldn't be for you. The resorts that aren't open to us (CR, GF, Poly, AK) don't really appeal to me so it's not an issue for us. We bought 175 points at SSR and have stayed there twice. The location is not great and I wish the food options were better but the resort itself is lovely and the pool is nice. It's quiet and relaxing. This summer we are splitting our stay between BWV and BCV and we all can't wait. The pools at these resorts are driving the kids batty already.
You definitely have to balance the pro's and cons. There is money to be saved for me, my kids, and my grandkids!! For the next 47 years! The pros outweight the cons for me. Between the time we bought in (last summer) and next November we will have made many trips, 4 nights at SSR last December, 2 nights at SSR last March, 5 nights at BWV (in a 1 BR) and 4 nights at BCV this August and a 3 night stay at SSR this November and still have points to spare. If we had to pay cash......never would have happened at those resorts. The best we could hope for was POFQ and probably some Pop thrown in.
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
For us, it is so much more than a "financial" investment! It is the investment we make from our heart, for our family!
Sometimes, when I am staring down the mechanic over a huge repair bill, the only thing that keeps me from an act of violence is knowing that I have Disney vacation in a few months, and I'll get my "fix"! Fiscally efficient? Maybe not. Memories that we make even with our teens who NEVER act too cool at Disney? COMPLETELY PRICELESS!
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
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I do see what you are saying, but you are also locking yourself into certain accomodations (I couldn't get 10 nights at AKL for 150 pts!), having to plan far in advance at times, and having to pay those dues even if financial things aren't going so well. I know you can rent your points, too, but that seems like a hassle.
As much as I would love to have my lodging "pre-paid", I'm just not sure what kind of investment it would be.
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All very true. From my POV, it's a whole lot easier to budget $49 per month for my dues than it is to find $3000 to pay cash for the same room.
The selection of resorts doesn't bother me. By next week I'll have 5 trips under my belt as a member, and I still haven't stayed at all of the DVC resorts. In addition, we prefer to use our points almost exclusively for the weekdays since they are quite a bit cheaper than weekends. That gives us an opportunity to split a week-long trip between our DVC resort and also spend a couple of days elsewhere paying cash. That approach will still save us tens of thousands on our accommodations over the lifetime of the contract.
Like I said, there are certainly more economical ways to stay at Disney, including off-site for a fraction of the cost. But if you want the luxury of the BoardWalk, Beach Club or Saratoga Springs, DVC is a whole lot cheaper than paying $250+ per night cash for the same room.
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
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For us, it is so much more than a "financial" investment! It is the investment we make from our heart, for our family!
Sometimes, when I am staring down the mechanic over a huge repair bill, the only thing that keeps me from an act of violence is knowing that I have Disney vacation in a few months, and I'll get my "fix"! Fiscally efficient? Maybe not. Memories that we make even with our teens who NEVER act too cool at Disney? COMPLETELY PRICELESS!
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That made my day - you have no idea how many times I've had similar experiences when the only thing that keeps me going is the prospect of the next Disney vacation - and we wouldn't have as many planned without our DVC membership. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
To pick up on Dawn's earlier point, I don't feel limited at all by the resorts on offer through the DVC, but that's probably got something to do with the fact that the Beach Club is by far our favourite resort. We've also stayed at Saratoga Springs and had a great time there and may well be trying Old Key West on our next vacation. I very rarely hear anything bad about any of the DVC resorts - and best of all, we keep hearing all sorts of rumours about what the next resort might be... the Contemporary and Animal Kingdom Lodge are two names that have been mentioned. Now how [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] would that be! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
We (me,dh,ds3 1/2, and dd 7) stayed at OKW (in a 1 BR) thru an II trade for the first 7 days of our vacation and then 2 nights in a reg room at the FQ. Now I love the FQ ...it is a beautifull resort but after this vacation I will never have to sleep in 1 room accomadations again.It was very difficult.......in the 1 br at okw my kids slept on the pullout and then we went into the master br and we could watch tv without bothering them.......this is not the case at the FQ......We did happen to buy 150 points at SSR during this trip and I am glad we did!!!!!!
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Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
Thank you everyone for the math lesson! I knew there was an element that DH just wasn't getting and it's that __________riceless thing! This was why I was never so great with math in high school...I always wanted to put more into the equation than the numbers said to and this is a prime example of that, I think. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/rofl2.gif[/img] If they did add AKL, *then* I'd have a talking point with hubby. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
I have a question for you, do you normally travel to DW every year?
Our family doesn't, so i am not sure it is worth it for us to invest in all the points and then only use them once every 3 years or so. we just can't save up money fast enough for all the other expenses to make a trip happen very often. But we do LOVE the deluxes.
I don't think i helped much.
If you go every year even every other year and your only expense is $875 per year, that sounds like a good deal to me.
another thing to consider, are your points transferrable?
noreen
Re: Still trying to wrap my brain around the math...
You can't look at this like a financial investment. To us it's an investment for our soul. We need this to feel human again. We own a very busy business and I'm lucky if I work under 100 hrs a week. This does not mean we are rich by any stretch....ahahahahaha but it does mean we are tired and overworked. We NEED to have something to look forward to. This is just something that our family needs.
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riceless thing! This was why I was never so great with math in high school...I always wanted to put more into the equation than the numbers said to and this is a prime example of that, I think. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/rofl2.gif[/img] If they did add AKL, *then* I'd have a talking point with hubby. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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