Banned from WDW property - for having siezures About This Page:

[disneymom9092]

bluegrrl beautiful post!! Thanks so much for your input! Exactly what I was trying to say but you speak from a different perspective than I could. Thank you! And welcome to PP!

[kingfamily1129]

Let me first say that I am very happy Will's friend got her ban lifted. It seems that CM just took his role a little too far and instead of going through the proper channels, he took it upon himself to "lay down the law" so to speak. I do hope he gets a lesson on the proper way to handle guests with disabilities of all kind.

With that being said, I can understand both sides on this debate. I can understand how some people would think that an epileptic going to Disney alone could be a cause of concern if the person had frequent seizures and such. I think I would be more concerned for their own safety rather than mine. People have accidents all the time. My mother always said she didn't name me Grace because I was far from graceful. I trip and fall all the time! lol I have also been injured at Disney before, by a CM and by guests. It happens, and honestly, in a crowded place such as Disney, I imagine it happens more than people realize.
But, on the other side, I get what Pax and some others were saying too. IF you ban the OP's friend, don't you then have to ban all others who get seizures from coming to Disney too, just in case? And, in order for Disney to turn people away who pose a risk to others with their medical conditions, wouldn't that require everyone divulging their personal medial histories to Disney before coming, for safety's sake? That seems a bit much to me, IMO. That's like Disney saying (and this is just an example, I am in NO WAY meaning to offend anyone) anyone with prior heart conditions can not come to the parks, just in case they have a heart attack or palpitations or something, so they don't hurt others if they do. People who have a heart attack can easily fall off a ride (if they chose to go on) or fall onto a child in a line or into a display case, ect... Same principal. So then we would have to ban everyone with a heart condition, just in case. When you come to Disney, you come on your own accord. You CHOOSE to come to Disney and you do so at your own risk, whether you are the one with the medical condition or someone who may possibly get hurt by someone, with or without a medical condition. No one forces you to come to Disney, the same as with the mall, or restaurants or stores of any kind. You get out of bed and go out into the world at your own risk every single day.

The fact remains that people get hurt everyday by people of all kinds. Car accidents, children playing rough, sports, ect... It's just something in life we deal with and we do it all the time without even realizing it.

Just my two cents.

[Pax]

Originally Posted by disneyknut

A statement such as that will easily offend members of that race or religion & to single them out is against the guidelines.

And I apologised to the one person to claim offense.

However, it was not politices or religion being discussed, it was law. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.

[Pax]

Originally Posted by EddieCVS

If she is traveling alone there are many risks for herself and others.

I asked, what exact risk could she present to others.

And now, I'll add: what risk does she present to people on Disney property, that she doesn't present to them riding on a public bus or train? Walking along a public sidewalk? Shopping at the local supermarket?

Furthermore, how much risk, above and beyond that assumed by everyone simply by getting out of bed and stepping out their front door, does this woman or any other epileptic reasonably pose to those around them, on or off Disney property?

...

Or would you advocate shuttering epileptics away, and not allowing them out-of-doors unescorted? Because really, that is the alternative. One I find absolutely unacceptable.

[Sandra Bostwick]

Originally Posted by Bluegrrl

I am a new poster, but I think I can add a smidgen of advice to this interesting discussion (before ya'll get tired of it!).

I am an epileptic (or, rather, I have epilepsy/seizure disorder.) Mine is inheritable (juvenile myoclonic epilepsy) and it expressed itself when I was 20.

Anyway, I go to Disney all the time. Like the OP's friend, I live in FL and love going to Disney. Here's the deal: I AM lucky, in that I am very well controlled and can even drive. But that doesn't mean I don't take precautions. I get lots of rest the night before I go to the parks, I don't watch the fireworks (or I watch them from a safe distance - like the Polynesian's beachfront), I take lots of breaks, I don't ride any rides that have strobe lights, etc. I also travel with others.

Have I had a seizure at the parks? Yep. It has happened. And, yes, I got wheeled out on the tiny little ambulance. Am I a danger at the parks? I don't think so. But it all depends on the type of seizure that one gets. I think lots of people get the wrong idea of what they look like. Not all seizures are the "shake, drop on the floor and drool" sort of ones - and even those are necessarily a danger to others. The ones that I think are really dangerous are absence seizures - especially if someone is driving. That's what seems dangerous to me. As I said though, I have learned from my mistakes and now take precautions (although sometimes you just can't help being who you are).

With regards to seizure dogs: They are very hard to find/train/get. I thought about getting one, but they are not as easy to train/find as a seeing eye or disability dog. A seizure dog has to be extremely sensitive to the person and very well trained. In this person's condition, a dog may work, but be aware that they are hard to find.

There is an Epilepsy Foundation in Miami, but not in Orlando. The epilepsy assistance group in Orlando is called the Epilepsy Association of Central Florida . She may want to get in contact with them for some support (both physical/financial and mental)

If you have any other questions or if your friend ever needs someone to talk to, feel free to pm me, as I have lots of experience and empathy with Disney and epilepsy.

Welcome to our little group, Blugirl, and thanks for the tips in your post. VERY helpful.

Will, I'm so glad your friend is able to visit Disney again!

[Dave Marx]

I'm going to exercise my privilege of having the last word. I think the discussion has gone about as far as it can.

Originally Posted by Pax

I asked, what exact risk could she present to others.

And now, I'll add: what risk does she present to people on Disney property, that she doesn't present to them riding on a public bus or train? Walking along a public sidewalk? Shopping at the local supermarket?

I can toss out some Disney-specific examples (for example, people injured by an emergency ride stoppage), but the core of the matter is, Disney is not responsible for what happens on the public sidewalk or the local supermarket. They are responsible for what happens on their property. They're responsible for and to every guest and employee, the individual at the heart of the discussion, and everyone around her. Whose rights take precedence? That can change in one unfortunate instant.

The notion of prior restraint goes against the American idea of freedom. Any time an authority figure tries to head a problem off at the pass (rather than wait for it to happen), we tend to have a negative emotional response. Still, one of the prices of liberty is that people get hurt, either exercising those liberties themselves, or because others are exercising their liberties. And when people do get hurt, the discussion turns to, "Why wasn't more done to prevent the situation?"

At one time, it was relatively easy to put people away in custodial institutions, whether "for their own good," or for the convenience of others. Today it's far more difficult to do. The results are not universally good - many have benefited, but some don't have the kind of care they need. It's a tough situation to balance.

Furthermore, how much risk, above and beyond that assumed by everyone simply by getting out of bed and stepping out their front door, does this woman or any other epileptic reasonably pose to those around them, on or off Disney property?

It's a good question, because we don't know the situation well enough. The risk may be greater than we know, or there may be no risk at all. However, nowhere has it been suggested that all epileptics (or all of any group) are a danger to themselves or society.

When all people with a particular characteristic are singled-out for unusual treatment, it's called discrimination. That's what the ADA is for - to ensure that a class of people are not excluded - everyone dependent on wheels to get around can expect to find ramps, doors wide enough to admit them, etc., within the limits stipulated by the law (no need to make the ladder to the top of the clock tower accessible if the tower is closed to the public). However, it does not mean the law guarantees that every individual within that group must be accommodated under all circumstances. If accommodating a guest means putting an employee at risk, does ADA trump OSHA? Darned if any of us know without a trip to the courthouse.

Or would you advocate shuttering epileptics away, and not allowing them out-of-doors unescorted? Because really, that is the alternative. One I find absolutely unacceptable.

That's over-dramatizing the point. It's not about an entire group of people - we're speculating whether this person, in particular, is or is not a danger. It's not appropriate to speculate - speculation does lead to discrimination. Acting on solid evidence, however, is not the same as speculating - if Disney, or anybody else, has enough evidence to back up their decision, chances are the law would support them. We, however, do not have solid evidence on this particular issue, we only know what we've been told.

The law rarely sees things in black and white. If things were that easy, there wouldn't be judges and appeals procedures. There's a reason the statue of Justice is blindfolded and holds a balance scale.

Again, we can't know everything we could about this person's situation, and if we did, it would be an invasion of her privacy. Considering Disney rescinded its actions, for now, the conversation is closed. If something new happens, perhaps we'll be talking about it again.