School issues: Some great news! Update 7/18
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poohmaine · 01-12-2006, 11:15 AM

I was wondering if any of you have experienced something similar to what we are going through with our daughter, and what you did in the situation, and what happened as a result. Also if any of you were like this in school.

My daughter, an honor student and a junior in high school has decided she doesn't care about grades anymore in some of her classes.

She is taking AP English, Honors Spanish, Honors US History, and getting Bs and Cs in most classes, but is doing poorly in science and FAILING math! Why? Not because she isn't smart enough, but because she doesn't do the homework or any assignments. Or if she does do them, they are late and thus marked down accordingly.

At parent-teacher conferences, all her teachers said she would be a straight A student if she would only do the work. She admits she is lazy.

We have asked her if she wants our help: talking to a counselor; getting a tutor; taking time management courses, dropping out of honor level, dropping the class, etc. Are you overwhelmed with the work load? Do you need help with homework? Nope, she wants none of it. She won't see the teachers after school for help because she says she doesn't need the help, she just doesn't care to do the work! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/foreheadslap.gif[/img]

Rewards and punishments have no effect. We have restricted her to working weekends only, have removed Internet access from our home, offered her various rewards for an improved report card, etc. Nothing works.

She is a good kid. She is well liked by the teachers. She does not fool around in school, she pays attention and participates in class. She works 10 hours a week at McDonald's, they love her there and say she works very hard and is an outstanding employee. She calls us when she is going to be late, asks permission before she goes anywhere/does anything, etc. It's really just this one issue we have with her!

We talk to her all the time, tell her we love her no matter what. We are not on her about this every day, but she does know we are concerned, we don't agree with her decision, and we are here to help if she wants the help.

She says she still wants to go to college. We told her these poor grades are going to narrow the choices she has.

My husband thinks we have done everything we can, and that we need to let her fail, experience the consequences, and (hopefully) learn her life lesson.

I have stressed about what else I could do to help. But I am starting to think like my husband, maybe she is the type of person that needs to fail in order to learn a lesson. I sure could use some advice! Thanks for reading.

Grammy Grumpy · 01-12-2006, 11:35 AM

Yes I have and know of others that have struggled with this issue (DS is now having the same issues with HIS DS who is a sophomore in HS). I know it's tough but unless you know of any other reasons for her attitude towards the work then I think your husband is correct. We all learn from our failures and mistakes. It's a hard thing to do though.

[img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] that things work out for you and your family!!!

**HiddenMickey** · 01-12-2006, 11:48 AM

One thought popped into my head...
What kind of kids does she hang out with? Do they take the same kinds of classes? Is she seen as the "smart" girl among the kids? Could she be trying to "impress" some boy who doesn't necessarily do well at school...and feels like she needs to be like him? Is she trying to play down the "smart" girl image for some other reason?

poohmaine · 01-12-2006, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of kids does she hang out with? Do they take the same kinds of classes? Is she seen as the "smart" girl among the kids? Could she be trying to "impress" some boy who doesn't necessarily do well at school...and feels like she needs to be like him? Is she trying to play down the "smart" girl image for some other reason?

[/ QUOTE ]

Her friends are all honor students. Two friends are 5th and 10th in the senior class. She also has two friends who are doubling up on classes so they can graduate a year early. Her long-distance boyfriend (they met at camp) is a straight A student at a private academy. So it's not like she doesn't have some good peer role models. Hmmm . . . it doesn't explain while she continues to do well in her AP and honor level courses either . . . but definitely something to find out about.

**Colexis Mom** · 01-12-2006, 12:21 PM

No advice, just tons of pixies for you and your DD [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img]

**HiddenMickey** · 01-12-2006, 12:31 PM

Your answers make this even more curious. I too wonder what it is about the math and the other non-honors course that makes her not want to succeed in them. Has she expressed anything negative about the teachers or the courses themselves? (I had a terrible math teacher in 10th grade...I was getting Ds in her course and I always had made As and Bs in school. I just couldn't understand her and the way she taught stuff. My parents got me transferred to another class for second semester and I started getting Bs.)

I don't think I'd be able to just let it go like your DH thinks, either.

Other thoughts--

Does she have enough time to complete her homework for all classes, or is she choosing to use the time she has to do the homework for classes she "cares" about and letting the other classes slide?

Obviously she is in charge of her own homework time, but maybe you will have to "watch" her do her homework for a while. I'd ask the teachers in those problem courses to email you with their homework schedules (my son's teacher's have them online) and check up each night to see if she's done that work. It's sad that such a bright girl could disregard her grades so much.

I'm not sure if I'm much help (my kids are 12 and 10), but I do remember being a teen in high school and some of the pressures of being a "smart" kid.

dejavu · 01-12-2006, 12:45 PM

Boy, I really feel for you. My kids are in middle school and my "perfect" son is beginning to say he doesn't care about his school work either. I have no idea what else you can do with a junior in high school. I'm afraid your husband might be right. Have you looked into the requirements for the colleges she might want to attend? Maybe if you can show some substantial proof that her grades will matter, she will rethink her self-destructive behavior. Maybe it is just a control thing- she is trying to assert her independence in one area where she has total control- her own grades. ?? Pixies to you and your family.

Suzie · 01-12-2006, 01:21 PM

So glad (I guess) to find out that this problem is not just ours. Our oldest son was in the gifted program at school, got straight A's in everything....except Health and Phys.Ed.
He failed those courses because he was just not interested in them. It played havoc with his grade point average (another reason why I don't think Phys.Ed. should be a graded subject- but I won't rant here about that). We could not convince him otherwise and it put a real damper on what was actually a very good High School career. When he graduated, his SAT scores were so high that all kinds of colleges were interested in him. But he said, "No. No more school" and he has stuck to it. He is 25 now and works doing computer stuff for two attorney's. HIs best friends have gone on to Grad. school at Harvard and Oxford.
My husband said the same thing, it's his life. Let him live it.
Suzie

LBAK · 01-12-2006, 01:43 PM

I went through this with my daughter, now 20. For her it was the pressure of everything. We start these kids of this track in preschool amd we don't let up. Pressure to succeed in academics, to get into the best college, to be the best in sports or dance, to be the best friend. We want them to have it all and while that's not bad it does have negative side effects. My DD was not great in math or science either. After numerous groundings, threats, tears etc. Her guidance counselor suggested I put her in regular classes. You know the ones, the ones we took. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] To my horror I agreed and all of a sudden I had a different child. She was happy again, her grades shot up and she found balance in her life. She also got into an ive league school. She told me she felt like a weight was lifted off her shoulders and that she actually had time for all her work plus a life. Was that a learning experience for me!
Good luck in whatever you decide to do. It's sure not easy being a parent!

poohmaine · 01-12-2006, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Her guidance counselor suggested I put her in regular classes. You know the ones, the ones we took. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] To my horror I agreed and all of a sudden I had a different child. She was happy again, her grades shot up and she found balance in her life. She also got into an ive league school. She told me she felt like a weight was lifted off her shoulders and that she actually had time for all her work plus a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the first thing I thought of, that she was overwhelmed. She did drop out of honors math last year, and she dropped honors chemistry this year. We have urged her to drop down in every class if she wants too, but so far she doesn't want to, because she says she will be bored if she did . . . [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

BelmontBelle · 01-12-2006, 02:55 PM

I have no advice, but read your post with great interest as both my DD's are honors students and my 8th grader is starting to feel the pressure of always being "perfect" as she puts it. Many pixies [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] and prayers to you that it all works out for the best!

graygables · 01-12-2006, 03:16 PM

I'm a fan of natural consequences. You calmly explain that her grades now will guide the course of the rest of her life, fair or not, that's reality. Then she makes the choices. I think by trying to figure out what's wrong and being kind of over-involved in it, you are giving her control over you (she knows she can upset you). If you back off and show her that it isn't affecting YOU at all, only her, then maybe she will right herself.

In our case, my senior DD goes to a virtual charter school and decided she had better things to do with her time. She kicked it into high gear toward the end of the semester, but it was too little too late and now she has to start over again. No, I will not ask for any special exemptions or privileges, she simply has to start over. I am not going to stand over her and watch her do her work, number one, because her boss isn't going to stand over her to make sure she does her job, and number two, just because she does it, does not mean that it gets to the teacher (and her boss isn't going to handle her correspondence for her, either).

As a parent, it's hard to watch when they make choices that we would not make for them, but she needs to learn that consequences come from every choice we make and sometimes literally alter the path of your life.

[img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] for you!

travismom · 01-12-2006, 03:29 PM

Your DD sounds SO much like my DS. He basically gave up on school in the 11th grade. Actually it started his freshman year in high school by saying to us, "I have 4 years to keep my grades up!!" Now that he is graduating in May from high school he looks back and sees his mistakes. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/082502yes_prv.gif[/img]
I hate to say this, but I agree with you husband. We let our son suffer the grade consequences but thankfully his SAT and ACT scores were high enough to get into college. Punishment and rewards did not work with him either and this past sememster we dropped Calculus from his schedule. Now the only honor class he is taking is Physics. I have to threaten, show my ugly side, and basically become the "witch Mom" to get him to do his homework. He also works, has a girlfriend and plays 3 sports. The only saving grace with his grades is that he cannot participate in any sports with a grade below a 70.

So my advice...let her suffer the consequences. It's going to break your heart. Although you want her high school transcripts to show good grades her final test will be with the SAT and ACT tests. High school transcripts do play a big role in college acceptance, but those pre-college test do also.

Good luck --- [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img]

JoanW · 01-12-2006, 04:22 PM

Oh I hate teenage years. We learned the hard way about the learning from your mistakes, and at age 24, oldest DD is somewhat unprepared for adulthood. DH always stepped in and fixed her problems and she is resentful now if we don't, and she is a working adult with a Master's Degree.

[img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/fairy2.gif[/img] for you and your DH.

I'm also another proponent of less pressure on kids in school. I never made them sign up for advanced classes and figure they will have harder classes in college. My kids are not going out of state for college and I certainly can't afford Ivy League and we never qualify for a scholarship financially. I want them to enjoy their high school years. You can't get them back.

Teresa · 01-12-2006, 06:49 PM

Okay: RADICAL IDEA: STOP!

It's what DD's counselor told us to do,and it worked.
Tell her that she is now in charge of her own grades, and that you don't even want to see a report card. if she fails, she will go to adult school until she finishes (no drop-outs in our family) YOU WILL NOT talk to her teachers, and the only meetings at school you will go to are those that she invites you to.

I know how harsh this sounds, and how hard it is to stop being interested in her grades, but she is old enough to decide: Does she want to go to college, and does she have a plan to leave your house after she turns 18 (or graduates school). Because, there aren't any free rides for lazy butted people in my house.

Sometimes these kids are so pressured to do everything they are told, they start letting their grades go as a way to gain control. Doesn't mean she wants to fail, just that she wants that choice. Give her back all her privileges and let her make the decision.
PS- this did work with Samantha, she went from Ds and Fs to As and Bs.