Trying to work it out *REALLY LONG* About This Page:

[akleos]

Well, here it is... I've got this dilemma and I am so wishy-washy about it that I thought I'd post it here as a sounding board. Maybe you all can give me a different perspective. I'm esp. anxious to hear what RNlovesStitch has to say...

If you are pregnant, please please please do not read this thread

I have two wonderful kids. DS is 3 1/2 and DD is turning the big "1" on the 29th. DH keeps asking me if I want another baby, and I'm really not sure. Look, I'm no spring chicken, folks, so if we want another baby I really can't wait a few more years to make up my mind. It isn't the staying up at night, it isn't the nursing for a year, it isn't the hectic scheduling and time management, it isn't the money and the small house. It's the L&D.

DS was a wonderful, normal birth (albeit many hours of labor and loads of pitocin)(and an epidural - THANK GOD). But DD was the opposite. Went into labor in the morning of my due date, labored all day with no need for an epi. Around 8 pm I was just so tired I decided to get the epdiural. It's important to know I had only 1 bag of fluid before my epidural. Everything was going just fine and then right after the epidural was in, my blood pressure dropped. The whole room went white. I couldn't see, I could barely hear. The nurse called the anesthesiologist, she kept shouting my name and saying "stay with me", but I could barely grasp it. Then everything "appeared" again. It scared the crap out of me and I balled my eyes. But it's labor, and you can't focus on anything but labor... so... I tried to move forward. Labor slows down, then picks up. They turn off the epi so I can push. I push until it is clear that the baby wasn't going to budge, and off the the OR for an emergency c-section. When the (same) anesthesiologist gives me another shot of med's via my epidual I swear I feel woozy and it started to freak me out. But then baby is born, and I have no worries. Slowly I say "I think I can feel something." And as the anesthesiologist asks me "Is it pressure or pain?" white hot pain rides through my entire body. I have no epi. I'm wiggling my toes. I'm wide open and I'm in agony. DH and baby are very quickly escorted out of the room. My nurse comes and grasps my hand and I just remember looking at her and screaming. Doctor has to stop operating. I'm losing blood while the anesthesiologist LEAVES THE OR to get something to knock me out. Finally he comes back and says "You're going to feel very sleepy" which I am welcoming. After surgery, I am taken to the recovery room. My nurse sits with me for about fifteen minutes I guess, I was loopy. She said she had to take a break and so-and-so was going to watch me. So-and-so left the room after five minutes and never came back. No one told DH if I was ok or brought him back to see me. It was more than two hours after he was escorted from the OR when he walked back on his own (in a "secured" area) to find me in recovery. I was having nightmares afterward. I'd wake up in the middle of the night afraid I was going to die in my sleep. I was having trouble bonding with DD because I associated her birth with fear and pain. No one would answer my questions about the surgery for fear of a law suit so I have no answers and no closure.

I wrote a letter to the President of the hospital. I talked with the head of the nursing dept., who was really wonderful (OB nurses are the best nurses on the planet, I'm not kidding). I talked with the head of the anesthesia dept. (he gave me my epi with DS and I felt confident with him) and he promised that if I decide to have another baby, he would make me his single patient. I have discussed my fears with all of the OB's in my practice and have decided on one who (or is it whom? I forgot the rule) I think has the calmest bedside manner and who says he is willing to give me extra time and care. But if I have another baby, I must have a scheduled c-section - no VBAC. And switching to a new hospital is kind of risky since this hospital is in my town and the next closest is a 40-minute drive away (at best). I've been as pro-active with my care as I possibly can. And I'm still on the fence.

I want another baby to fill my house, to love and to care for... for the extra giggles and to see the wonderful bright eyes during the it's a small world ride, but I am so scared that when I drive by the hospital I cry and shake at the thought of it. I saw a therapist and she gave me excellent tools to help cope with the post-traumatic-stress-disorder, and yet I'm still on the fence. I honestly don't know what to do. And like I said, DH keeps asking me. He says no pressure, but I'm feeling the pressure. Self-made pressure or otherwise.

Anyway... I'm not going to ask "what would you do" because I think that this is a decision I really need to make on my own, but I would really listen to and accept different points of view and new things to consider. I really want to start a dialogue to help me get out of the rut of "do I? don't I?" So.... deep breath... I'm all ears (Disney pun intended).

THANK YOU!! For taking the time to read this lengthy, disturbing and deeply personal post and for giving me kind feedback.

PS. after re-reading my post I have come to the conclusion that I need to stop using the word "really"!!

[Chrissi]

I have no sage advice. Lots of , though.

I would give anything to have another baby, but Mother Nature has been uncooperative in that respect. I'm deathly afraid of hospitals and being in one means putting control into someone else's hands. In your shoes, I'm not sure I could do that after having put your trust in them and them failing you in that regard.

I'm sure this is completely unhelpful, but I think there's a reason our fears can so consume us. It's our minds telling us to preserve ourselves at all costs. There's no reason not to trust that feeling and do what YOU feel is best for you. Don't feel pressured and guilty to push through something that is for you a very reasonable fear.

[DISNEY03]

Amy,
Every delivery is unique and good or sometimes bad. Thank you for sharing such a hard time in your life. The only thing I can say is that I will say a prayer for you tonight that whatever your decision is that it will be the right one for you.
I'm sorry that you went through such a hard time.

[Jookiba]

Wow. What a traumatic experience! Unfortunately you can end up delivering like you did-via C-section-even if you've had kids before. Something can go terribly wrong necessitating an emergency delivery, or the baby can be too big, turned the wrong way, or just not cooperating.

You have my deepest sympathy for the way you were treated. Had you been my patient that would NOT have happened on my watch. I love my patients way too much and strive to give the ultimate in nursing care (and I'm just not saying that because people are reading this).

What happened with you passing out after receiving your epidural is the reason we dump buckets of fluids into mom PRIOR to her receiving one. The reason is that the meds in the epidural cause your blood vessels to relax and expand; thus slowing the flow of blood down & in turn your pressure drops; the end result being a loss of consciousness.

As for your epidural wearing off during your section, that is every labor nurse's nightmare. The only thing I can think of is if they had you changing positions multiple times (which we have to do so the epidural meds don't pool on one side of your body, thus resulting in just that side being numb) the catheter could have become loose in your back & thus becoming dislodged. Or it wasn't hooked up to the pump correctly, or set at the right infusion rate. Without seeing the charting I wouldn't be able to tell you definitely.

One thing I WILL tell you is that anestethist should NOT have had to leave the room. Emergency drugs are at the head of the OR table (at least they are where I was previously); the anestethist never, EVER leaves the patient. If you have to run to get something you send a runner, which I had to do one time to get some Versed from another OR. That is definitely traumatizing to you to be lying on the table, feeling everything, with every second ticking away like an eternity. Our anestethist always had the vials lying out on the table with all the gases just in case something like this happened. We never had a mom start to feel something halfway thru-it was always when they were testing to see if she was completely numb-and on the few instances the epidural didn't take then we proceeded with general anesthesia from the get-go.

I never had traumatizing deliveries-I was very blessed in that department and had both my kids in less than a half hour (no joke). However, I lost a baby in between and had nearly every conceivable complication with DS. Someone posted just today about a family member losing a baby because of premature separation of the placenta-that's what happened to me, only at 24 weeks. I lost half my placenta. My life was on the line as was his. Luckily I carried to 39 weeks and had a healthy baby boy; however right then and there sealed my fate at not having any more children. I simply did not have the emotional strength to endure 36+ weeks of worry, contemplation, and expecting the worst.

Only you will be able to decide if you want to go thru that again. Unfortunately there's no guarantees of how anything would turn out.....except I could tell you if I were your nurse you'd get top of the line treatment from me. I don't exactly understand why your doc says you'd have to have another C-section unless the incision was made vertically instead of horizontally which is sometimes done in an emergency. But unless the baby's heart rate was dangerously low there shouldn't have been a need to cut that way.

I'm more than happy to talk with you any time about your experience as talking is part of the healing process. Ask any questions you would like. Wish I could be of more help to you!

[scarlettsmom]

My daughters delivery was a breeze. My doc laughed at me when I told him she was coming now and left the room to have a coffee with my grandfather. He missed the birth. The nurse delivered her. BUT I went back to the hospital after 1 week home and almost died of an infection my doctor ignored. I called every day telling them I was sick and they said I was just a first time mom and it was everything from my milk coming in to the flu (in June) and to go see my family doc. I did and he yelled "why are you here instead of the ER???" BUT anyway, I don't want anymore kids. I love where we are and I have no desire to go through that ordeal again. I was away from my baby who was a week old for 5 days sicker than I have ever been. I totally hear you when you are unsure about more kids. I got a ration of crap from my girlfriend last week who is trying to have another and thinks I'm crazy to not want more. She really thinks I need some head doctor to give me something to make me think clearly. DON'T BE PRESSURED. There is nothing worse than regretting a child because of an experience. HTH!

[mcc0313]

The warmest of hugs to you...your little one should only know one day how brave their mother was when it came to birthing them...

As you said this is a decision that only you can make...however as RN loves Stitch said I don't know why you would ahve to get a C-section again...many times woman go through a c-section becuase of a difficult birth and go naturally afterwards....however I do not know the specifics of your case so there might be other influences that made your doctor come to that decision.

What I can tell you is that the fear is hard to get over...When we found out that we were pregnant it was the happiest day of our life...when the doctor said twins it made it even more special, I felt great, no morning sickness...I thought that everything would go by quickly...

During my forth month my husabnd died in a freak accident...the doctors did not want me to fly but I insisted becuase no one was going to tell me that I could not be there to bury my husband...we went out fo the country and sometime after two weeks or so I woke up with the worst pains that I ever imagined. They rushed me to a clinic (we were on the islands) and there was no bleeding and after three or four doctors came in they heard a heartbeat...

I thought everything would be fine...and it was for awhile. Once back in the states I went to see my doctor and there was only one heartbeat...twin to twin tranfusion they said and after numerous sonograms they concluded that the other twin had I guess evaporated into the plancenta...

I went into early labor at 7 1/2 months...they stopped it but not before I had dilated a few centimeters...they wanted to try to keep me pregnant as long as possible so I spent the next few months seeing the doctor everyday so they could make sure that everything was ok...

They predicted I would go into labor by 8 1/2 months...guess she was going to make us all suffer becauase I went into labor 1 week almost after my due date...I was in labor for almost three days but it was managable...figured I could do this...so I stayed home, bit my lip and dealt with the pain...

It finally hit and the snow started to pile up...my parents rushed me to the hospital, by the time I got there I was almost dilated...I did not want an epidural and the doctor was stuck in the snow strom...they ahd another doctor on call who was in sugury...

I was tired, my doctor wasn't there but I figured if I made it this far how bad could it be...

Jasmine (my DD) was a stubborn one...her shoulders were turned...low and behold after what should have been the best 9 months of my life and instead turned out to be a true test of courage...the next 40 minutes put the fear in me that I never wanted to ever have another child....(even if it was possible after the delivery)...

They could not get her out...without a doctor they could not use suction...finally they realized her heartbeat had dropped...she was blue (and I mean blue....) the midwife knew that if they did not get her out they would lose her...I was crying (and on no drugs at all)...

They told me point blank I had to push...they actually cut the cord from around her neck before she was even out...no time for cutting - just ripped her out...

I thought she was dead...it was the worst thing I ever felt...I told my friend who had been with me that if she did not make it I wanted to die...I think I actually asked her to kill me but I don't remember....

At some point I saw all these doctors rushing in....they were fighting to get her to breath and suddenly everyone's eyes were on me...I was hemmoraging terribly...they were first shooting me with all these drugs to try to get my bleeding under control...I really don't remember much except this pain that radiated through my body...

I woke up to see my daughter...still blue tinged but alive...they had to keep her for an extra day to run tests becuase she had lost so much oxygen at birth...

They finally gave us the go ahead to go home....it was pretty hard...she was so much her father and for so long I tried to push my feelign of loss to the side but it was so hard...

Two days after coming home I woke with terrible pain and was hemmoraging again....
I had not been bleeding much since they stopped the hemmoraging and they warned me that I would start again but I knew something was wrong...

Rushing me to the hosptial...they ran a battery of tests....seems that all those doctors at the hosptial who said that the twin had blended into the placenta had been wrong...it was lodged up in a scarred part of my uterus....I ended up bleeding out whatever had been left of the other twin.

They said that Jasmine was a miracle....they were suprised that she had not suffered infection during the last few months due to the other twin...

All I can say is that I never wanted another one...not becuase I did not want another child but I would never go through what I had gone through then...there was also a large chance that I would not be able to carry anyway...

Through the years as much as I wanted another I could not do it...I was in such a palce of fear and also emotionally I was not ready to really be with someone.

Seven years after my first daughter was born I found out I was pregnant. I was in a in a terrible realtionship (which only proved to me that I should have remained single) which did not help me but the thought of going through another labor...I did not know if I could do it...this miracle was not planned but I took it as God's way of saying I could do it...

The first six months I was so sick I did not know if I could get through it...my life was really bad at that point and on top of it this preganancy made me feel like I was at death's door...numerous times I wanted to give up...

When I held my second daughter after one push of a perfectly easy labor (I did not even have a labor pain even though I was going through contractions...they actually had to induce me so I could feel the urge to push)...

I could not beleive after so many years of being scared to death after what I went through that the one thing that got me past the fear was actually doing it...

I can't say that it would be the same for you...I can not even tell you that if the pregnancy had not come out of suprise I would have ever gotten up the guts to try to get pregnant...

What I can say is that the fear is still there...I think once you go through a bad experience it will always linger....waht I can tell you is that you are one brave woman...you children should be proud of their mother and you shoudl be proud of yourself...

If you decide to try...you will find that strength...it is there and if you don't there is nothing wrong with that decision either...

Did not mean to write this much...just wanted to share and tell you that your decision is a hard one and that no matter what you decide...it will be the right choice for you...

God bless you and your family...

[Disney_Scarlett]

Oh, Amy. I have no advice. As was once famously said, "I don't know nothin' about birthin' no babies." No kids of my own, and no birth-stories of my sisters/friends to relate to yours (and after reading this entire post open-mouthed, I probably will never have kids of my own Kidding. Kind of. No really. I am. Not. Okay, I'll stop now. Sorry, I use humor at inappropriate times). My greatest fears are of spiders and clowns, both totally irrational. Therefore, I don't even have any words of wisdom on how to deal with a very real and reasonable fear such as yours, as I can't seem to get past anything with 8 legs or giant red shoes. I can say with certainty that you're much stronger than I am!

While never about anything of this magnitude, I do know how it feels to be in a do-I-don't-I rut...indecision is my speciality. If there is a fence, I will ride it. I think that there comes a point when you've done all the research you can do, asked all your friends and family members what they think, talked about it with your therapist, co-workers and your mailman, and you're still at the same place you were. My mama gave me some good advice when I was trying to make a heart-wrenching decision recently - "Honey, it's always going to be something. There is no perfect answer." Scary thought, as I always want to do the "right" thing, but it's true. You can't stick your head in the sand about the realities, but once you've gathered all those, you just kinda got to breathe and make your choice. Either way it's going to be "something" - I'm sure there will be joys and heartaches no matter what you decide. I think whichever choice you make will be the right one because it's yours.

After re-reading all that mooshy stuff, I really wish I had some great concrete advice for you. Darn my liberal arts education; knew I should have done pre-med. to you and your family as you think it all through, and your PP buddies are here if you need us!

[snoozin]

I'm really sorry for all you went thru. My birth mother went into labor with me and because there were so many moms there at the time, they lost count of who had been given anesthesia, and my mother hadn't and they started cutting into her... ouch!

I had 3 children (two survive) and kept hoping for an 'accident' for many years. My eldest is now 21, youngest 11, and while I can no longer medically have children, I would in a heartbeat. Children are wonderful blessings, and such joy (most of the time)... I know facing this again would be frightening. But personally I would. Many, many pixies and hugs.

[tndisneyfam]

Wow! I am so sorry that happened to you!! We too are toying with the idea of having #3. My son who was born almost 2 years ago,was rough on me. He was born 2 weeks early, mainly because 1. my bp was rising 2. he was already estimating at 9 lbs 3. I was in sooo much pain because he was so big. He (actually we thought he was a SHE until the day before I had him) was breech from very early on, so I thought I would have to have him via c-section.I was really upset at first, but finally I was ok with it. I can't understand why women were telling me they preferred a c. No labor is nice, but OMG. My son was 9lbs 3 oz 22 in at 2 weeks early, he was breach, had one leg down and one leg up to his chin. It felt like an organ was RIPPED out of me. No "you'll feel pressure"-It hurt. But they had to pull my little porker out. As soon as my wonderful doctor,( I mean it, he listened to me and knew I couldn't carry my DS another second. BTW, I was a day late with DD, so I am a trooper. ) pulled DS out he said the cord was wrapped around his neck. I am so thankful everyday that he was breech and I had a c-section. Who knows what would've happened. It was the hardest thing I ever went through. I was so scared, my Mom had a c-section like 20 years before and her doctor messed up so badly, yes, the courts proved it was his fault, my sister was mentally and physically handicapped and only lived 3 years. Plus, 11 months prior to having DS, my Mom died from a three year battle with brain cancer. So it was really tough on me and to top it off, a few hours after DS was born he was sent 75 miles away to The University of Tennessee Hospital because his lungs were a bit weak, so he couldn't keep his oxygen saturation up. Thankfully, he only had to stay a week and is know healthy and finally in the correct weight percentile. So, yes, I am ready for #3. Even though I know it will have to be another c, doctor's orders. No VBAC here either. I know what to expect and am praying that it will be a bit easier.

I say listen to your heart and do what you want to do. I am scared also, because I won't have the same wonderful doctor that I have had for the past 10 years and that who delivered both of my babies. He moved and yes, I have thought about visiting his new practice, but 2 hours away is kind of tough for me and 2 kids.

I just have to ask, if you are totally set on not going to a new hospital? There are a ton, not kidding, of women who drive the 75 mile drive to Knoxville to have their babies at UT. Some get a hotel room or stay with friends or family a few days or so before their scheduled c-section, or my BF had her DH drive her to Knoxville after her contractions starting coming closer. My other BF drove from Knoxville to here to have my doctor deliver her babies. I just wondered, I have thought about driving too, but I really like our local hospital. It's all in what you feel comfortable in. Don't let anyone talk you into anything you don't want to do.

Sorry to have typed so much! I wish you the best on you decision. Just remember we are always her to listen!!

[Lumieregirl]

sorry to hear about your experience

I would think that it would be worth it to go to the other hospital. At least you wouldn't be in the same place (literally) as that experience, which might help alleviate some anxiety (or at least not add to what you'll likely have). I had a medical procedure go horribly wrong some years ago, and now even when I pass that place I get a little freaked.

Every labor is so different & it is easier said than done but it seems it would be a shame to not have another if you really want one.

Take care -

[BritDisFan]

Oh you poor poor thing, what an awful experience! If you did decide to have another baby I would find out if you can have it in another hospital at least you won't have the bad memories or negative thoughts about what happened to you at the same hospital .

[dejavu]

I'm SO sorry about what happened to you.

The short version for me was, I felt DH was breach at 7 mos., the doc said he'll turn, he didn't, when I got to the hospital and my water broke, they tried to start the epidural, test my leg, I said "OWWW!", then they started yelling "his foot's coming out!", (DH was already changing into scrubs down the hall and had no idea this was going on), they said "emergency c-section, ten people suddenly burst into the room, they shoved a mask on me and that was it.

The cord was around his neck so it was a good thing it was a C, but I was very traumatized too. When DH showed me the baby I said "that's nice but I feel like I'm dying!" I couldn't swallow and I was freezing the death. Later I told DH in tears I didn't think I could ever have another baby.

SO thank goodness my memory faded and reasoning kicked in (what are the odds of that happening again?) so I had DD two years later. Her birth was a VBAC, but her head was stuck they used a suction cup thing, her heart rate dropped and again with the screaming people. Luckily they got her out fine.

So when we debated about a third, I told DH if there was a 3rd way to deliver, I'd like to try that because I did not like method 1 or 2!!

#3 came after much, much deliberation. His labor was longer than the other two kids, I had an episiotomy and he still wouldn't come out so the doctor yanked him out. That hurt..

I'm not sure why we all feel compelled to share our stories. I think it is to point out that every single delivery is different.

If I were you and made the decision to do it again, I WOULD want a planned c-section. I feel it gives everyone more control over every aspect of the situation. You don't have the labor and everything else is done in a pre-planned calm manner without the drama of emergency anything.

Whatever you decide, don't be pressured by anyone. Know one else knows what you went through and no one else can go through it for you!

for you as you think about your decision.

[CinderAbby]

I'm sorry that I have no advice just

I lucked out when I had my DD, everything went fine. On and off thru the years, my DH asked if we were going to have another child, but we never did - we were barely getting by with the one we have and I didn't think it was fair to bring a child into the world that we were financially unable to care for. Now we are a little bit more financially stable, but due to unexpected health circumstances I had to have a hysterectomy in June and now we can't have another one . But you know what, I'm okay with that, I have a beautiful daughter whom I love dearly. Point of the story - you never know what tomorrow brings and trying to predict the outcome you'll drive yourself crazy. Try to focus on positive things as we all have enough (IMO) negatives in our lives already.

[HiddenMickey]

I'm sorry your second birthing experience has left so many emotional scars. It must be really hard for your to think about all of this. Many pixies for you .

I just wanted to say that originally, my DH and I were going to have three kids...that was our plan. They'd have to be two years apart in order for me to have them all by age 35....also the plan. After DD was born, we talked a lot about whether actually having the third child was a good idea. We had two healthy, active kids, and did we want to change the family dynamics by adding another child? Having two kids to two parents was working really well for us. We weren't sure how it would be to have three.

I would have loved to have another baby....I loved being pregnant and loved caring for those little babies. But, I realized that I didn't really want another child. I liked the idea of the baby better than the idea of adding a child to our family (if that's making any sense?). So the decision was made to forgo trying for another. I'm sure we made the right decision.

I'm sure you'll eventually come to a decision that will be right for you. I just wanted you to know, that many of us have had to make the same decision that you are going through. We each have our own variables to work out in our minds as we make the decision. Your trauma is just one of the things you have to work through. You'll have to think of the financial impact of another child, the dynamics of your family, etc.

Good luck to you and your husband as you grapple with this decision.

[akleos]

Wow! Thanks everybody! I can't believe the kind response - I'm feelin' the LOVE! I know with your support I can find the courage to go through with another c-section... I wonder how you'll all reply if/when I need help picking out names!!! THANK YOU!!!

I was thinking about it last night, and I wonder if perhaps part of the reason I'm really struggling with this right now is because it is the anniversary of the trauma. My therapist told me I should expect to feel this way around this time every year (with each year hurting less) just because the subconscious and body retain the memory of it... I guess I just didn't expect it to get in the way of my decision-making skills.

Believe it or not, your stories helped me, too. Most of my friends are tough cookies who labored for days without an epidural, pushed twice and had happy, chubby, beautifully robust babies. I'm the only one I knew who had something go bonkers, so it's nice to know that others can relate. I know it's one of those things that time will heal but for the present... well, obviously you know it still effects me.

I think the Universe wants me to have another baby, though... I didn't tell you that 5 months to the day after my c-section I was back in the hospital for an emergency appendectomy, so I was forced to face my OR fears head-on. If I focus on that experience, having surgery again feels a little less frightening, but it's the being awake part that digs me. Well, that and the spinal, and the blood pressure dropping, and feeling like I'm walking toward the light. DH was joking around with me the other night when we were discussing it and he said he could picture me with a giant poster board (anyone who has seen me plan for a WDW vacation is familiar with my love of the poster boards - lemme put it to you this way, I have two poster boards and one giant WDW map all on the wall for our upcoming trip in December. OBSESSIVE!!! ) checking off the number bags of fluid I've received before I'll let anyone touch with for a spinal.

Thanks for letting me start this dialogue. I know you'll hear more about it as my decision making process continues! I appreciate it!! Passporters really are the greatest people around! Especially those Passporter OB nurses (little shout out to Amy, RNlovestitch)!

Ok. I need to go. DS is out of school today and ibegging me to take him to feed the horses and cows at our local farm. Plus I still have to post the what would you do of the day!