*HP7 SPOILER Thread* - Now Open to Discuss here! About This Page:

[Alecia]

I loved this book and can't wait to start the series over and watch Harry grow up all over again. I did wish that she would have let us know that the Dursley's survived, and I liked that Narcissa Malfoy was willing to lie to Voldemort to find out what had become of her son. I also liked how in the end Draco managed a curt nod to acknowledge that He and Harry and the others were tolerating one another, it would have been wierd had they been overly friendly. Outward Malice would have been a bit out of place too, I don't think that Draco could have forgotten that his life was spared twice because Harry and his friends chose not to just let him die.

On a side note, I have read on a few boards people who have written nothing but how much they hated or were disappointed in the books. While they certainley are entitled to their opinion as I am mine, What ever happened to just enjoying the ride, and relishing in a wonderful series of books that will likely not be read once and put on the shelf to collect dust.

[MelissaL]

I too rushed through the book to finish it before I saw or heard any spoilers, so I'm sure I missed a lot of details. I was impressed with how many popular fan theories were confirmed (R.A.B, Snape and Lily, Harry as Horcrux) and how many completely unforeseen details were added (the Hallows, Dumbledore's backstory, other families in Godric's Hollow).

My guess about the epilogue is that it was written many years ago and simply polished more recently. (The last word is no longer "scar" as J.K Rowling said it was a few years ago.) I agree that it was not nearly as creative as the rest of the book.

There are a few points that Rowling implied in interviews over the years would appear in this book that didn't (unless I missed them) -- maybe the book just got too long. For example: What did Harry's parents do for a living? Were any Hogwarts teachers married? Which character did magic for the first time late in life? What did Dudley see when he met the dementors?

I would have liked to read for sure what happened to the Dursleys, but my guess is they were OK because, to my recollection, neither Hestia Jones nor Daedalus Diggle (the Order members assigned to protect them) was mentioned again in the book. If there had been an unfortunate incident, it would have been alluded to somewhere.

While I fully realize that nothing really "happened" beyond what's on the page, I do hope J.K. Rowling addresses some of the unresolved "What was..." and "What happened to..." questions on her web site and/or in interviews.

Melissa

[monzmom]

SIGH...it's over. But what a great way to end the series. I really enjoyed the book. Since I am a "the glass is half-full" type of gal, so the 19 years later chapter was great IMHO. I liked reading about the kids and seeing how much they were like their parents.

I also felt that the book dragged in spots - mainly in the camping scenes. But like a previous poster stated, JKR was reflecting how the 3 main characters were feeling at that time. This book (and series) had us all on emotional rollercoaster. I for one enjoyed the trip!

[Caldercup]

Originally Posted by MelissaL

There are a few points that Rowling implied in interviews over the years would appear in this book that didn't (unless I missed them) -- maybe the book just got too long. For example: What did Harry's parents do for a living? Were any Hogwarts teachers married? Which character did magic for the first time late in life? What did Dudley see when he met the dementors?

Yeah... I was really intrigued by the Dudley question as well as which squib did magic for the first time late in life. (I was hoping it was gonna be Filch during the "Battle of Hogwarts" scene.) After I finished the chapter with the Dursley's, I felt a real let-down that we didn't get that piece.

I'm confident that Rowling knows all the answers to these questions and had planned on including them, but made cuts for reasons of pacing (although... she could've moved a few things along in the middle to be able to include those things. )

Eileen

[wvugrrrl]

Originally Posted by Alecia

On a side note, I have read on a few boards people who have written nothing but how much they hated or were disappointed in the books. While they certainley are entitled to their opinion as I am mine, What ever happened to just enjoying the ride, and relishing in a wonderful series of books that will likely not be read once and put on the shelf to collect dust.

I'd just like to clarify my previous posts, because I feel like some people may have taken what I've written the wrong way. I don't mean to imply that I absolutely loathed this book, because that's simply not true. I even stated that while it's not my favorite, it's certainly not my least favorite (that honor goes to Order of the Phoenix).
I do think that it's important for a discussion board to be able to talk about certain aspects of the book, to critique and praise different aspects, especially since this was the spoiler page. If you enjoyed the book and were happy with the way that it ended, my dissatisfaction is not directed towards you, and you are certainly entitled to your opinions.
I just personally think that, having read HP from beginning to end, you definitely see a positive evolution in JKR's writing techniques, and I felt that the style with which this book is written actually represented a backtracking, of sorts from the standard of her writing that I've been accustomed to.
There are items in this book that I've pointed out my disdain to, but there were also parts that were completely riveting. The gang in Gringotts, for example, and also the scene with Dobby - completely sad. These sections definitely represent the writing style that has drawn us all to these books in the first place.
I just felt like, with all of the lagging sections in the middle, the book still felt incredibly rushed, and just sloppily (is that a word? ) written. It felt like some details were just thrown in for no other reason than the fact that JKR needed to clarify some minuscule point that she made back in book 4.
And the reality is, yes, I did feel as frustrated as Ron, Harry, and Hermoine when they were all stalling in the forest, and if that was Rowling's intent, well-played. But the reality is, she's the author, and she could've made a more cohesive, not so much action-packed but at least not action-stalled middle of the book. And the more that I think about how much of a waste the Deathly Hollows turned out to be, the more aggravated I get, because not only did we have 1/3 of a book that was just a lot of waiting, but then another good chunk of the book turned out for naught.
Anyway, I'm done rambling now. And I don't want anyone to think that I'm bitter or angry, or defensive. I was, as a whole, satisfied with how the series ended. And I realize that this book was a lose-lose situation - not everyone is going to be satisfied, no matter how many different endings/scenarios could have been written. But I also think that it's important to have an intelligent discussion about what I, or others, did or didn't like about this book, and so I'm glad I have the opportunity to do so here.

[denwol]

Originally Posted by wvugrrrl

I'd just like to clarify my previous posts, because I feel like some people may have taken what I've written the wrong way. I don't mean to imply that I absolutely loathed this book, because that's simply not true. ..............
..........I just felt like, with all of the lagging sections in the middle, the book still felt incredibly rushed, and just sloppily (is that a word? ) written. It felt like some details were just thrown in for no other reason than the fact that JKR needed to clarify some minuscule point that she made back in book 4.
And the reality is, yes, I did feel as frustrated as Ron, Harry, and Hermoine when they were all stalling in the forest, and if that was Rowling's intent, well-played. But the reality is, she's the author, and she could've made a more cohesive, not so much action-packed but at least not action-stalled middle of the book. And the more that I think about how much of a waste the Deathly Hollows turned out to be, the more aggravated I get, because not only did we have 1/3 of a book that was just a lot of waiting, but then another good chunk of the book turned out for naught.
Anyway, I'm done rambling now. And I don't want anyone to think that I'm bitter or angry, or defensive. I was, as a whole, satisfied with how the series ended. And I realize that this book was a lose-lose situation - not everyone is going to be satisfied, no matter how many different endings/scenarios could have been written. But I also think that it's important to have an intelligent discussion about what I, or others, did or didn't like about this book, and so I'm glad I have the opportunity to do so here.

Again.....I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Nala]

I loved the book and was very happy with the ending. I got so upset with Hedwig and Dobby's deaths, I don't know what I would have done if Harry, Ron or Hermoine had died. Fred and Lupin tore at my heart, but Tonk's death really got to me. I felt so bad for Teddy.

I loved the chapter about moving Harry from the Dursley's, and making six more of him. That part of the book may be my favorite and I can't wait to see it on the big screen. Fred and George's little jokes about George's missing ear cracked me up. Leave it to those two to find humor at the darkest times. The toast to Mad Eye "ear, ear" made me laugh out loud.

I also loved Molly going after Bellatrix. Didn't see that one coming at all and was terrified that she was going to get killed. But as they say, the most dangerous place in the world to be is between a mother and her cubs.

The only thing I would have liked to had more information on is what happened after the battle and how order was restored once again to the wizzarding world. I know we got little bits and pieces of it, but I would have loved more detail. But that would have added another 100 pages to the book. Maybe someone will do a seperate book of just headlines and front page news from the Daily Prophet or something.

I know there is a lot of talk about how these books don't teach our kids the right things (which I do not believe) but I think the messages in this series are very powerful and great life lessons. The lesson of the dangers and horrors of prejudice really stood out in this book for me. Malfoy wasn't born hating Muggles, he learned it from his parents. These books not only teach the children who read them valuable lessons, but also remind the parents who read them what to, or not to, teach our children. Rowlings did a great job throughtout this series of pointing out what is important in life. The love of family, the loyality of friends and above all else, treating everyone as an equal.

My hat is off to her for giving us seven wonderful books that I for one know I will read over and over.

[Dave Marx]

Wow! So many great, thoughtful comments!

For whatever reasons, the camping scenes didn't bother me. They were on the run and so effectively isolated and out-manuvered by Voldemort's activities that Harry, Ron and Hermione became a stand-in for what must have been happening to the rest of the wizarding community (as we saw when they eavesdropped on Dean, Griphook, Ted Tonks, etc. in the forest). That period of isolation and oppression helps motivate the incredible "tipping point" that comes when Harry finally returns to Hogwarts. Everyone has had enough of the Death Eaters, and are ready to risk all to end it. It was similar to the long trek that constituted so much of Lord of the Rings. Perhaps subconsciously I understood that there would soon be a payoff for each relatively slow-moving part of the journey.

I also had no problem with the introduction of the Hallows to the story. It wasn't there for Harry's sake (he, after all, turned his back on them), but to further motivate Voldemort and give us deeper insight into Dumbledore. Voldemort always seems to be searching for that magical "home run" that will give him the power he craves. His greed, impatience, and reliance on magical objects are key parts of his downfall. The search for the prophecy is another example of the same trait in Voldemort. I suspect JKR knew she couldn't sustain yet another book on the hunt for a prophesy, so she created this new quest.

However, all those magical objects - horcruxes, Hallows, swords, basilisk fangs, the incessent game of "musical wands" (how many did Harry & Co. capture?), Dumbledore's bequests, and all the rest.... That was the most irritating part of the book for me. It was like a Role-Playing Game, where a primary object is to accumulate as many useful objects as you can before the final showdown. While that's obviously been part of every book, this time it was like a shopping spree at a magical Wal Mart.

I also appreciated the detailed look into Dumbledore's life. Until this book, Dumbledore seemed to be on a par with LotR's Gandalf. Gandalf, if you recall, was the equivalent of an angel, who was sent by the good powers to combat Sauron (and was one of the biggest loose ends of the books). I like that JKR firmly made Dumbledore into a flawed human and told enough of his story that we could lay the character to rest. Knowing his flaws didn't knock him down a bit, but rather, showed why he had so much belief in the power of love (his tragedy was what redeemed him), was so strongly compassionate (knowing that he came so close to joining the darkness himself)... and lots more. It ends up making him a far richer character. It also leaves readers wondering more about the hero than about his mentor, which is a good thing, IMO. At the end of LotR, Gandalf is still the biggest mystery.

The deaths? I, too, knew that Lupin and Tonks were done for as soon as Harry was made a godfather. It's about the only plot twist that JKR muffed - I can't think of any other part of the ending that was so clearly telegraphed beforehand.

There were so many scenes that brought me to tears - not just the tragic or glorious scenes, but those where friendship, loyalty, and goodness triumphed over the surrounding darkness. Half the time, I barely understood why it was happening until after it happened.

One part of the story hasn't been mentioned, and I think it should... Umbridge's reign of terror over the Muggle-born. We've seen evil of that sort in our own world all too often, and JRK showed a new generration just how evil that is.

19 years later? Yes, there are lots of things we speculated about that weren't addressed in the epilogue, but... Any chapter of the sort tends to be anti-climatic, and short of spinning out a very long ending as Tolkien did (which is even more anti-climatic) it's a hard chapter to make work well. I think she did admirably. She managed to close the door with, "and they lived happily ever after" while still providing some glimpse into the details of that happiness, and she put a stop to some of the speculation (Harry as teacher, Ron as Minister of Magic, etc.) while leaving enough hanging that we'll still hunger for more. As comments in this thread have shown, she managed to open the door on new characters and close the door on all of these. It also said to me that, in the big picture, who has what glory or what comeuppance has much less meaning than having love and family. It's not about who ends up with power (whether for good or evil), but whether children can grow up in a safe, loving environment. It's a lot like Sam coming home to Rosie and the kids after seeing Frodo off at the Gray Havens. I like it!

[Fortissimo]

First, has anyone else been dreaming about the book since finishing it, or is it just me?

About the Deathly Hallows, I was confused at first about these as well. However, without the three items, the cloak, wand, and stone, there would be no"deathly hallows". Without the deathly hallows, Harry would have died. Harry went into the hallows when Voldy attacked him. As Harry lay in the hallows, he was forced to make a decision: die and join the others he has once loved, or live and kill Voldy. Something like some have said they saw a light at the end of a tunnel when faced a near death experience.

Harry also needed the three items to survive: the cloak hid them, the wand fought off Voldy's last killing curse, and the stone helped him live.

I may be way off base with this due to lack of sleep, but that is what I got out of the Deathly Hallows.

I do wonder what happened to Crookshank. Did he stay at the Burrow?

I have also read that Rowling plans to close up loose threads on her website, saying that the book wasn't the place to do so. She will post what the Potters did for a living, etc. I just hope we don't have to wait 2 years for that to happen.

I have started reading it again so my opinions could change.

[Mouseketeer]

I finished this afternoon, and can I say I was totally emotionally drained. I thoroughly enjoyed the book, and in fact every time I put it down to take a break and soak in the details, I was drawn right back to the story again. I do wish in the epilogue we'd have gotten a little more detail on some of the other characters, such as Luna. I loved how it ended with Harry, Ginny, Ron and Hermione putting their children on the train to Hogwarts.

I think the saddest part of the book for me was Dobby's death - when Ron put the socks on him I got so teary.

One of my favorite parts was when they finally picked up "Potterwatch" on the radio, and Lee Jordan (the commentator from the Quidditch matches) was the host. That was a fun surprise, and a nice way of bringing back one of the characters from the earlier books.

I also thought JKR did such a good job with Snape's character - making us hate him all this time, but also suspect that he was a "double agent", which he turned out to be in the end. A truly complex character, along with Dumbledore, who we learned different sides to his character in this book.

I think I'm going to have to read the last part of the book again. I'm still trying to come to terms with everything. It's hard to believe that the series is finally over, as much as I wanted to know what happened I hate to see it end.

Lynda

[DebiDebiDebi]

Personally, I loved this book. I was not disappointed when I turned that last page, everything ended as it should. I was saddened that Fred & Dobby died. I loved that Severus Snape finally got his chance to explain where he was coming from...and I am glad that Dumbledore wasn't perfect...he had his dark side as well.
I was curious as to why JKR didn't tell us who the headmaster was in the final chapter, but was glad that Neville was a prof. It would have been fun to get one final peek at the Dursley's, but again, not a huge issue as far as I was concerned.
If I had to choose one part that "bothered" me, it would be the Malfoy's part of the story. So much opportunity for storylines, but in the end...neh, boring!
I am going to start in the beginning and read them all again...wonderful, wonderful books!

[WillCAD]

Originally Posted by Caldercup

...and that he was snogging Fluer and Bill's daughter, Victoire -- named after Krum, I'm assuming.)...

Actually, I believe that Victoire is the French word for Victory; a fitting name for a child who was born to parents who married during a great war and whose side won.

[RDDurant]

I have one question that isn't really answered - did the fact that Umbridge wore the horcrux locket all day each day make her as bad as she was, or was she always THAT bad? Did she get any better once it was gone? Ron sure did.

[elbug10]

I finished a few hours ago, and have been sitting here reading everyone's comments and trying to digest it all. I loved this book and I thought she did a wonderful job tying up some of the loose ends. I'm SO glad things weren't what they seemed, regarding Snape, and I knew even before the Pensieve scene that the Silver Doe had something to do with Lily, but never suspected it was Snape's patronus! I loved how she surprised me like that. I was glad Percy returned to the Weasleys, too. I knew there would be deaths, but I was surprised and saddened that one of them was Fred. I was even more surprised that Dobby died, and touched by the care in which Harry took in giving him a proper burial.

I also have a few lingering questions though. What happened to Hermoine's parents, and why were they so absent throughout the entire series? I suppose that makes it easier to include Hermoine into the Weasley extended family, even before she and Ron started dating, but still, think of it. If you had a child who could do magic, and you sent her to a boarding school, wouldn't you at least want to spend vacations with her? Especially if that school were in a world completely different from your own? Wouldn't you be afraid of the influence it would have on her, and that you would ultimately lose her to it (as they did?). Wouldn't you at least hope she named one of her children after you?

I also wanted to know what careers Harry, Ron, Hermoine and Ginny chose, and whether or not George returned to the joke shop he and Fred owned (did they still have a joke shop to own, once Diagon Alley and Gringotts were destroyed by the dragon?) And did Bill go back to work at Gringotts?

As for Teddy Lupin, they mention that he was over at Harry's all the time for dinner, but who raised him, if not Harry? Tonks's dad died; did her mom survive? And for that matter, where did Harry and Ginny live? Near the Burrow? Near Hogsmeade? Actually, why was Teddy going to Hogwarts? Since this was 19 years later, and he was born just before the battle, wouldn't that make him too old to attend? Victoire was obviously younger, as she was born after the war (I too, assumed she was named the French word for Victory, but it could have been a little for Victor Krum, too), so assume she was maybe 17, the oldest a student can be to attend Hogwarts; that still makes Teddy a good 2 years older than her, and too old to be a student. Is he a teacher, then? Should teachers be "snogging" students?

Don't get me wrong, I'm SO glad she threw in the Epilogue, so we could see into the future to see who ended up with who, and their kids' names. Loved that Harry named his kids after his parents, Dumbledore and SNAPE, of all people, but didn't Ginny get to choose at least one of her kids' names from her side of the family? Not that I wanted their daughter to be named after Auntie Muriel, mind you! I just would've liked to see more between "the end of the war" and "19 years later". Did Harry, Ron and Hermoine go back to Hogwarts? Who was Headmaster then after Snape left, and who is headmaster now that the next generation of Potters, Weasleys and Malfoys are attending?

I think Rowling has finished Harry's saga nicely, but I'm hoping that she's left a door open to continue to tell more stories in the Hogwarts world. Maybe a book from McGonnagall's point of view on what happened in between? Or better yet, "The Modern History of Magic from 1899 (or wherever Bathilda left off) to the Present" by Hermoine Granger Weasley"

[WillCAD]

Originally Posted by RDDurant

I have one question that isn't really answered - did the fact that Umbridge wore the horcrux locket all day each day make her as bad as she was, or was she always THAT bad? Did she get any better once it was gone? Ron sure did.

Dolores Umbridge was that bad long before she started wearing tha Slytherin locket; the scars etched into the back of Harry's Hand "I must not tell lies" proove that. I'm somewhat surprised that Jo never made even a passing mention of at least one student's parents pressing charges on her for torturing students, and attempting to use the Cruciatus Curse on Harry. The Cruciatus Curse is one of the three Unforgivable Curses, so named because using one earns the user an automatic life sentence in Azkaban.

The parents went NUTS when they found out there was a werewolf teaching at Hogwarts - why didn't they also go nuts when it got round that the temporary Headmistress was using torture and Unforgivable Curses on the students? She should have been tarred and feathered (which would be fun when done magically) and Levicorpused out of town on a rail!

I see a two very important lessons to be learned from Umbridge:
1) Bigotry is one of the ugliest of all Human emotions, always leading to cruelty and saddism and often even murder
2) Fanaticism for ANY cause will inevitably destroy any scruples or personal morality code a person has, as they justify worse and worse actions "for the greater good."

Originally Posted by elbug10

I also have a few lingering questions though. What happened to Hermoine's parents, and why were they so absent throughout the entire series? I suppose that makes it easier to include Hermoine into the Weasley extended family, even before she and Ron started dating, but still, think of it. If you had a child who could do magic, and you sent her to a boarding school, wouldn't you at least want to spend vacations with her? Especially if that school were in a world completely different from your own? Wouldn't you be afraid of the influence it would have on her, and that you would ultimately lose her to it (as they did?). Wouldn't you at least hope she named one of her children after you?

Hermione's parents, being Muggles, were not involved in the Wizarding world at large and only appeared directly in one book (they were in Flourish and Botts with here at the beginning of Chamber of Secrets.) However, Hermione DID spend most of her summer and Christmas holidays with them; Jo simply never expounded on these boring Muggle holidays, instead detailing those exceptions when Hermione was at the Burrow or stayed over at Hogwarts.

As to what happened to them, Hermione hid them away in Australia during the war, magically erasing their memories and changing their identities in a Wizard version of the Federal Whitness Protection Program. Her intention was to retrieve them after the war, when it was safe, which we can only assume that she did.

And who ever says that you are REQUIRED to name one or more of your children after one or more of your parents?

Originally Posted by elbug10

I also wanted to know what careers Harry, Ron, Hermoine and Ginny chose, and whether or not George returned to the joke shop he and Fred owned (did they still have a joke shop to own, once Diagon Alley and Gringotts were destroyed by the dragon?) And did Bill go back to work at Gringotts?

Neither Gringotts nor Diagon Alley were destroyed by the dragon, although there was serious damage to some parts of Gringotts. Most of the vaults were left intact, however, so the bank probably reopened after a few days of cleanup and repair.

Originally Posted by elbug10

As for Teddy Lupin, they mention that he was over at Harry's all the time for dinner, but who raised him, if not Harry? Tonks's dad died; did her mom survive? And for that matter, where did Harry and Ginny live? Near the Burrow? Near Hogsmeade? Actually, why was Teddy going to Hogwarts? Since this was 19 years later, and he was born just before the battle, wouldn't that make him too old to attend? Victoire was obviously younger, as she was born after the war (I too, assumed she was named the French word for Victory, but it could have been a little for Victor Krum, too), so assume she was maybe 17, the oldest a student can be to attend Hogwarts; that still makes Teddy a good 2 years older than her, and too old to be a student. Is he a teacher, then? Should teachers be "snogging" students?

It's not made clear who raised Teddy, but it was made clear that he was NOT attending or teaching at Hogwarts - he was stated to have come to Kings Cross to see Victoire off. Which, of course, means that Victoire WAS still in school, though her year was not mentioned.

Last time I checked, it was pretty common to date someone who is a few years younger or older than you are, even when one of you graduates before the other.

Originally Posted by elbug10

Don't get me wrong, I'm SO glad she threw in the Epilogue, so we could see into the future to see who ended up with who, and their kids' names. Loved that Harry named his kids after his parents, Dumbledore and SNAPE, of all people, but didn't Ginny get to choose at least one of her kids' names from her side of the family? Not that I wanted their daughter to be named after Auntie Muriel, mind you! I just would've liked to see more between "the end of the war" and "19 years later". Did Harry, Ron and Hermoine go back to Hogwarts? Who was Headmaster then after Snape left, and who is headmaster now that the next generation of Potters, Weasleys and Malfoys are attending?

Neither Lily's nor James' middle names are mentioned. Their middle names could be Molly and Arthur, for all we know.

I'm sure that once the Death Eaters were cleared out of the Ministry and the school, McGonagal took over once again as Headmistress.

As to who was Head 19 years later, who knows? Maybe Luna!

Originally Posted by elbug10

I think Rowling has finished Harry's saga nicely, but I'm hoping that she's left a door open to continue to tell more stories in the Hogwarts world. Maybe a book from McGonnagall's point of view on what happened in between? Or better yet, "The Modern History of Magic from 1899 (or wherever Bathilda left off) to the Present" by Hermoine Granger Weasley"

I'm hoping that she will either write, or allow another author to write, a series of books detailing the Potter and Weasley children's adventures 19 years later.

But your Modern History of Magic idea is a good one.