GAC to DAS About This Page:

[Erin1213]

Mamaloya,
That is true regarding schools systems...in order to receive services you have to show documentation. However, that is not the case with Disney. The problem with the GAC is it gives a mixed message in trying to be a universal disability pass. As you can see from the example card below:

The primary goal was to assist, but not give immediate access. The problem was poor training for the CM's on how to handle unique situations, such as someone with autism, PDD, or Aspergers, all of which require more specialized services.
We have to remember that the GAC was for everyone who has a disablity...both physical or neurological. I believe Disney truly understands our situation, but it may not be as easy to address, but I don't think they'll give up trying.

[mamaloya]

I know Disney doesn't require documentation but why don't they? Won't that solve the problem with abuse and fakers? Or at least minimize it? That is what I am wondering. Those with special needs do the research and would know to bring a letter.

[Pax]

Originally Posted by Eeyore Tattoo

"[...] qualifying disability [...]"

Most of the stndard queues for rides and attractions have been made Wheelchair-accessible. Thus, "I have to use a wheelchair / ECV / stroller-as-wheelchair" will not longer get you a DAS ... you won't generally need one.

"[...] reserve only one return time at a time [...]"

In addition to normal Fastpasses, and for on-property guests, Fastpass+.

"[...] reserve return times at designated kiosks around the parks. [...]"

The article also describes that the wait time for a ride is the current, posted Standby time minus expected travel time between the kiosk and that attraction. As a two-way trip, mind you.

...

Honestly, I'm just not seeing major issues with the DAS. And I say that, knowing that we WILL get one for our friend (who has had surgery on both knees, four or five times, now) in January, because with our stay being two weeks, I expect she WILL occasionally need to use it.

Originally Posted by mamaloya

I know Disney doesn't require documentation but why don't they?

By law, they can't.

The Americans with Disabilities Act forbids a place of public accomodation from requiring any proof other than "because I said so", when a customer or guest claims to have a disability.

If they tried, they'd be opening themselves to a pretty large lawsuit.

And then, there's this: within two or three hours, I could put together some very convincing, authentic-looking documents purporting to be from a doctor's office, or even a hospital or clinic, asserting that I had .... well, my choice of disabilities that would not be visible to a cursory examination.

And since Disney's CMs cannot possibly hope to verify every possible document, nor even reliably tell the real ones from the good fakes (especially when you take into account disabled travellers who're not just from out of state, but from different countries ... presenting documents in any of a hundred different languages) ... really, denying any single one of them would open themselves up to a huge lawsuit, again.

Originally Posted by notjustamom

. Personally it sets my family up for meltdown central. My autistic DS is obsessed with riding certain rides, a small number of rides that we do over and over again. This system, in MY opinion, seems like it will take us 2x as long to get through his list of must-do's.

They account for time spent walking from the attraction to the kiosk, in the return time they write down for you.

Also, we travel with my parents and my mom uses an ECV because her Parkinsons makes it difficult to walk. Now she has to go on the regular queue while we are in the DAS queue?

Seriously doubt that. If she's in your party, they're not going to break your party up - any more than they did with the GAC program.

Originally Posted by Eeyore Tattoo

I also think after we have tried the new system we should give feedback about it & what works & doesn't to Disney

This is extremely good advice.

Originally Posted by MsPeggySue911

I have even heard of ppl (2 different times) tell someone in line they got their fast pass disability card because they were diabetic. *SMH*

To be fair, diabetes can cause very serious, even crippling issues in a person's feet, and their legs I think.

Originally Posted by mamaloya

Why is it that people claim that it is illegal for Disney to ask for proof?

Americans with Disabilities Act, Section 12182

[...]


(b) Construction

[...]

(2) Specific prohibitions

(A) Discrimination
For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, discrimination includes

(i) the imposition or application of eligibility criteria that screen out or tend to screen out an individual with a disability or any class of individuals with disabilities from fully and equally enjoying any goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations, unless such criteria can be shown to be necessary for the provision of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations being offered;

All that is required for Disney to run afoul of that, is for ONE person with an actual disability, to not know in advance of the need to secure particular documentation, and thus be denied a reasonable accomodation. Just one.


Also, as I've mentioned: it would be laughably easy to forge a Doctors' Note. Doubly so for anyone traveling from a foreign country.

[OneLittleSpark]

Originally Posted by MsPeggySue911

It will dramatically change things for ppl who used it as an unlimited fast pass. I even forsee that some families might not be able to really do WDW if they can't use the GAC as a fast pass. If the kids don't understand waiting. But from what the other thread explained you will still be sent through the fast pass line once your return time comes you will just have to go do other things while you wait. I am not sure if you will be able to pull regular fast passes while you are waiting on your DAS pass return time.

I read the other thread but I am not sure it even addressed that part of it.

Yeah, it totally did....numerous times. In other words, people with DAS passes, will have access to more FP's then guests without DAS. DAS holders would be able to utilize...DAS FP, FP+, AND regular FP (as long as they are around).

It also addressed the fact that this could have a lot to do with the FP+ system. Disney is obviously trying to control the flow of people and having less people in the FP line at a time. Bc face it, if you want access to the FP line, whether it's bc you have a GAC or a FP or a FP+, you don't want to be standing in that line longer than the standby line bc everyone and their mother has access to it. Who wants to get in the FP line and wait 30 minutes if the standby is 30 minutes or less? It's a FAST pass line. It should be FASTER.

They already have begun implementing a system to reduce the FP line with the intro of FP+ and enforcing FP return times. The obvious last step is to stop those with GACs (who are unaccounted for in the FP system) from being unaccounted for. That way if they want 100 people an hour in the FP line, they will have 100 people in the FP line...not 100 people PLUS the GAC holders (which again, could change from hour to hour, bc they have unlimited FP access).

I honestly don't understand how anyone can argue the logic of that. It's all about the flow and keeping to their system, and having it work.

The other thread has been shut down at this point, so I think it's worthless to discuss how the conversation was in it.

[mamaloya]

OK, now I see the documentation issue. Thank you.

One note on given a return time. It actually DOES make your wait LONGER. I have been given one of the return time tickets when my stamp was for sun allergy only and I was on an ECV. The stand by line was 30 minutes. They wrote on a ticket to come back in 30 minutes. So, I left and came back. I was then sent into the FP lane, which was another 20 minutes. So, I waited 50 minutes when those w/o a GAC waited only 30. If they knew the FP was 20, then I should have waited 10 then sent into FP. I like that you can get the ticket w/o going to the ride though because all of the backtracking would make it impossible for me. The example I used was for ST. I simply found a shady spot to wait. I didn't have time to go do anything else or eat. I am not asking for faster, just even. I am hoping this will be even and not punishing all because of abuse.

Just sad that people abuse them. Sad that people lie. I would be so glad to not have any health issues and run from ride to ride with unlimited energy and no fear of the sun. I actually cried the first time I had to ask for a GAC.

[OneLittleSpark]

Originally Posted by mamaloya

I am not asking for faster, just even. I am hoping this will be even and not punishing all because of abuse.

I didn't mean that GAC people are necessarily wanting faster than standby...just that anyone (whether it's a GAC/DAS user, FP or FP+ person) would think that FASTpass would be faster than standby.

I also think the issue you are bringing up would be solved due to only a certain amount of people being in the FP line. For instance, what if that FP line you speak of that was 20 minutes long...would have been only 10 minutes if not for GAC users that showed up unexpectedly to the FP line? Kwim?

[Pax]

Originally Posted by mamaloya

One note on given a return time. It actually DOES make your wait LONGER. I have been given one of the return time tickets when my stamp was for sun allergy only and I was on an ECV. The stand by line was 30 minutes. They wrote on a ticket to come back in 30 minutes. So, I left and came back. I was then sent into the FP lane, which was another 20 minutes. So, I waited 50 minutes when those w/o a GAC waited only 30. If they knew the FP was 20, then I should have waited 10 then sent into FP.

If they don't already account for FP line times, that would be valuable feedback for you to give Disney. Because I agree that, yes, they should also subtract the expected time-in-FP-line from the return period written on the DAS-FP.

So, hypothetically: let's say it takes you 5 minutes each way, to get from Attraction A and the DAS Kiosk (total travel time, 10 minutes); the Standby wait time is 40 minutes, the FP wait time is 20 minutes. What has already been declared is, they will subtract the travel time from the Standby wait time, giving you a 30-minute return time. What they should do, IMO, is also subtract the FP line time, leaving you with a 10-minute return time.

If this all started at 10:00am, the timeline would look like this:

• 10:00am - at attraction, realise queue not possible for you; Standby time 40 minutes (ride at 10:40), FP time 20 minutes (ride at 10:20)
• 10:05am - at DAS Kiosk, get 10-minute return pass - not good until 10:15am
• 10:15am - back at attraction, ushered into FP line
• 10:35am - RIDE (5 minutes earlier than standby)

That's if it works as I agree it should. If it doesn't?

• 10:00am - at attraction, realise queue not possible for you; Standby time 40 minutes (ride at 10:40), FP time 20 minutes (ride at 10:20)
• 10:05am - at DAS Kiosk, get 30-minute return pass - not good until 10:35am
• 10:35am - back at attraction, ushered into FP line
• 10:55am - RIDE (15 minutes later than standby)

Even that, isn't really all that bad. nd note, in both cases, I'm assuming you DO go through backtracking a lot. If you don't. then you shave that 5 minute trip off of each example above.

Just sad that people abuse them. Sad that people lie. I would be so glad to not have any health issues and run from ride to ride with unlimited energy and no fear of the sun. I actually cried the first time I had to ask for a GAC.

I understand entirely too well. The day I spent in a wheelchair in EPCOT, I was intensely self-conscious - bvecause, wow, "just" a blister, right? And yet, no chair would have meant no day in that park for me, at all.

It sucks having to admit you can't do something that "everyone" doesn't even have to think about, and then hold out your hat to ask for help.

[MsPeggySue911]

As for Diabetes causing bad problems with ppl's feet and legs that is a mobility issue. GAC's aren't meant for mobility issues. Wheelchairs and ECV's cover that issue. If they are able to walk the park without a wheelchair they can walk a queue without one. They could accommodate them with a wheelchair entry if the regular queue won't accommodate them. If they need a place to sit and wait because they can't stand I don't know if they have a place like that for someone to sit and wait. Maybe ppl with that issue will have to start using a wheelchair so they can remain seated while waiting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

[PamelaK]

Sean, thank you for that timeline breakdown. That makes it easier for me to visualize how it may work in my head.
At this point there is a lot of speculation and concern over how this new system will work. I know that my daughter will no longer qualify for a DAS. She has qualified for a GAC in the past because of her disability. While she typically uses a wheelchair at Disney, She would get a GAC for those days she chose not to use her wheelchair and to walk instead. We would ask for a waiting area where she could sit down while she waited. TH usually gave her a GAC with the "Use alternate entrance" stamp. Under the new DAS rules, she won't be allowed this accommodation. She and I have had a few discussions about the possible changes to the GAC since the story about GAC abuses at DLR and the story about qualifying GAC users renting out their services. This new development has brought about more discussion and we agree that it really won't change our touring plans much. We mostly tried to use the FP system anyway and only use the GAC when that FP was not available. However, for other families, I can see where it has the potential to cause some major changes to how they vacation at WDW.

[Eeyore Tattoo]

We all hope when it officially rolls out it will end up working well for everyone.. We will all have to wait & see..

[phoebec]

Originally Posted by notjustamom

Just read a post on our local Autism Society boards. One of the moms called Disney to inquire about the new program. A CM told her they don't know what and when will be rolled out for WDW yet. They're waiting to see how it works first at DL. Also, the CM told her that they are "planning" to have a separate GAC for autism since the needs vary so much from most other disabilities. Take it all with a grain of salt but that's what she was told. Darlene, as per the other thread - I have bitten a hole through my tongue keeping quiet.

I really hope this is the case as the needs of autism are so very different in general but also on an individual basis. What one autistic child might find difficult but tolerable, another might find horrific and trigger full-on melt down mode. Like you, Disney is the one place we can go to and have some time where we feel like a typical family. I really hope this new program doesn't change that.

[Pax]

Originally Posted by MsPeggySue911

As for Diabetes causing bad problems with ppl's feet and legs that is a mobility issue. GAC's aren't meant for mobility issues. Wheelchairs and ECV's cover that issue.

Excuse me, but no ... that's not the case.

Not every person with a mobility impairment, needs (or wants) to be in a wheelchair, or on an ECV. For example, I occasionally have (quite bad) pain in my left knee and hip. The only assistive device I need or want, is my collapsible cane.

If they are able to walk the park without a wheelchair they can walk a queue without one.

Not necessarily. Stairs could be impassible to someone who otherwise walks on their own (with or without a cane). In fact, when my knee and hip are acting up? Stairs are the LAST thing I want to face. Given enough of them, I'd rather skip the attraction entirely. And that is exactly why the GAC and DAS programs exist: so that guests with less than complete ability, don't have to say "nope, can't do that, guess I don't get to ride that attraction".

Then there are people who are fine walking, but cannot stand still for significant lengths of time. So they'd be fine "walking the parks" ... but standing in a queue would be out of the question for them.

...

And frankly ...? Your post comes across as rather insensitive.

Originally Posted by PamelaK

Sean, thank you for that timeline breakdown. That makes it easier for me to visualize how it may work in my head.

You're very welcome - plus, it helped me think it through, too, and be sure I wasn't missing something major.

I know that my daughter will no longer qualify for a DAS. She has qualified for a GAC in the past because of her disability. While she typically uses a wheelchair at Disney, She would get a GAC for those days she chose not to use her wheelchair and to walk instead. We would ask for a waiting area where she could sit down while she waited. TH usually gave her a GAC with the "Use alternate entrance" stamp.

Hmm. That is rough.

Have you considered something like this ...? Or would that be too much of a bother to carry around the parks all day? (There's lots of variations on the idea, mind.)

[JerseyDad]

Originally Posted by Eeyore Tattoo

We all hope when it officially rolls out it will end up working well for everyone.. We will all have to wait & see..

....what I've read about the new 'system" so far ....is that it requires one that has / or obtains / needs a DAS to 'schedule' their ride / attraction entry time (sort of like a FP ...or FP+ without the 3 month lead time) . That appears to be the biggest objection / sticking point for those that are used to the GAC and unencumbered (no wait) access to the desired attractions.

.....the 'schedule' of an entry or return-time (to an attraction) seems to be a reasonable system (in Disneys's eyes) that WDW / DLR wants to have in place ...because they have already spent close to a billion dollars on the FP+ system to help manage crowds. (and I have no doubt that they want to get a good return on their investment) I suppose that with that system in place, they can then see when a 'window of opportunity" exists to allow a DAS holder(s) to return to the ride with minimal delay and inconvenience.

...the FP+ and MagicBands are simply a 'crowd management' tool ...and said 'tool' would not work without integrating the GAC or DAS 'system' into it. The system will "work" in Disney's eyes (they will MAKE it work based on the monetary outlay they have made) ...however ...those that will have to utilize it ...may find it does not suit their needs ...and will have to alter their plans accordingly.

[OneLittleSpark]

Originally Posted by JerseyDad

....what I've read about the new 'system" so far ....is that it requires one that has / or obtains / needs a DAS to 'schedule' their ride / attraction entry time (sort of like a FP ...or FP+ without the 3 month lead time) . That appears to be the biggest objection / sticking point for those that are used to the GAC and unencumbered (no wait) access to the desired attractions.

.....the 'schedule' of an entry or return-time (to an attraction) seems to be a reasonable system (in Disneys's eyes) that WDW / DLR wants to have in place ...because they have already spent close to a billion dollars on the FP+ system to help manage crowds. (and I have no doubt that they want to get a good return on their investment) I suppose that with that system in place, they can then see when a 'window of opportunity" exists to allow a DAS holder(s) to return to the ride with minimal delay and inconvenience.

...the FP+ and MagicBands are simply a 'crowd management' tool ...and said 'tool' would not work without integrating the GAC or DAS 'system' into it. The system will "work" in Disney's eyes (they will MAKE it work based on the monetary outlay they have made) ...however ...those that will have to utilize it ...may find it does not suit their needs ...and will have to alter their plans accordingly.

That is what I keep going back to. It's so that way Disney is accounting for and determining how many people are in the FP line...to keep the wait times low so it truly is FASTpass, as well as control the flow of the crowd through the parks. They can't do much about controlling the standby line but when it comes to FP/FP+ lines they can.

[kellensmom]

Looks like official word is coming out as reported on several other boards

Confirmed Information WDW & DL NO more GAC after 10/08/13 - Temporary Tourist