A Matter of Obediance (a question and a bit of a vent)
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vsonnier · 10-13-2004, 10:39 AM

First off, a question for you dog owners: Have you ever (or known anyone who has ever) sent your dog to obediance school? If so, was it the kind where you send them away for weeks or did you train with them?

Now for the vent: I have just about had it with my lovely puppy Daisy. Don't get me wrong, I love her more than life itself and I honestly don't think I could live if something happened to her. She is my baby - goes everywhere with me, sleeps with me, keeps me company when I'm lonely, BUT my baby is becoming a VERY BAD baby. She was never fully potty trained and she has always had a few problems chewing on furniture, but it is getting out of control now.

We have a very nice leather couch which she has torn a great big whole in and pulled all the stuffing out of. We turned all the coushins over so she couldn't continue to tear at the whole. Well, a few weeks ago DMIL gave us a very nice leather chaise lounge. I came home from school a few days ago to find stuffing all over the floor. I thought she had gotten ahold of the couch again which would have made me mad, but not that mad. Wrong. She has torn SEVERAL holes in the new chaise lounge and has succeeded in pretty much ruining it. Now both pieces of furniture need to be completely reapolstured (sp?). In the meantime, I have sheets tucked around all over the couch and chair to keep her from tearing it up more.

As if that is not enough, she has decided that she is no longer interested in using the bathroom outside. She would rather do it all over my house - primarily in the kitchen where it will seem the most disgusting. We have gates to keep her out of the bedrooms which are the only carpeted areas in the house, but she has succeeded in ruining our hardwood floors in the livingroom and hallways - not to mention that our house smells like pee now.

The problem with all of this is that I never catch her in the act. It is always done while I am at school (well..the peeing is also frequently done while I'm home). So I can't really correct her behavior because it's already over by the time I see it.

DMIL has a brand new house and she loves to keep Daisy (her favorite grandbaby) all of the time. She told me the other day that she thought Daisy needed to be sent to obediance school because she was destroying her house when she stays with her. I can't bare the thought of sending her away somewhere because I don't trust people to not be kind to her. I have heard very mixed things about the obedience schools that you attend with your dog. Most people I have talked to said it was a complete waste of time.

Do any of you have any suggestions? I am at whits end with my baby!

**HiddenMickey** · 10-13-2004, 10:47 AM

My sister did an obedience school with her puppy. It was done together with the owners. I think it would be a good thing for you and Daisy.

Sounds like Daisy is bored when she's at home alone. I'm sure a good instructor can give you ideas to keep her in line when you are not there.

-HiddenMickey

karmic · 10-13-2004, 10:51 AM

I know it sounds mean but she probably needs to be crated unless she is under constant supervision. WE have a beagle who did the same things and it took FOREVER for her to be housebroken. We kept her crated for the 1st 2 years whenever we were not home to prevent her from doing damage- she also had a great fondness for the contents of the garbage can. They do mellow as they get older- our dog is now 5 1/2 and she doesn't do much damage any more. Hang in there!

BritDisFan · 10-13-2004, 10:52 AM

Valerie, our dog Bonnie used to pee on the floor just like Daisy and often we were too late to catch her in the act. We were at our wits end, our vet told us to show her what she had done by pushing her nose towards the pee and then told us to tell her she was a bad girl in a firm tone and then very lightly smack her on the nose. I was horrified when I heard this as I did not want to smack my doggie but my Mum and Dad and eventually I persevered with it and she didn't do it any more.

We never ever hit her hard just a gentle tap, I don't know how you would feel about doing that, as I said I wasn't keen but it definately worked and she was always a good doggie after that. I can't really help with the chewing thing as she only did that when she was a very young pup.

Karen

StephanieS · 10-13-2004, 10:58 AM

I would hold off on obediance school now, but this is what I would do. You should crate train your puppy. This is what I did w/mine. I bought a wire crate that was big enough for her bed and food/water bowl and a toy.

Whenever I left the house, I would take her outside to go to the bathroom and then she would go in her crate. Dogs usually won't go to the bathroom where they sleep so she probably won't go in there. As soon as you get home, take her out of the crate and right outside to go to the bathroom. At least this way she won't be going to the bathroom all over while you are gone and she won't have anything to destroy really.

Crate training isn't really putting her in a cage, most puppies like it b/c it makes them feel secure, and it's their own place.

She's probably destroying your furniture from separation anxiety and the fact that puppies chew everything naturally. My puppy chewed a hole in our carpet and a hole in our wall when we left her alone once, but she grew out of that over time.

I took my puppy to obedience school, it was the kind where you go w/the dog. It was good, but they aren't going to teach your dog to stop peeing on the floor- they would teach her to sit/stand, etc. which I don't think would help your problems much. Good Luck! -Steph

vsonnier · 10-13-2004, 11:00 AM

We tried putting her nose near her business and giving her a light pop for it, but that made things even worse. This is going to be very disgusting, but that made her want to clean it up. Like when we did that she started to eat her mess and lap it up. It was beyond disgusting. Our vet told us that she realized she shouldn't have done it so she was doing her best to clean it up. So we stopped that pretty quickly. I couldn't stand to have her kissing me after that grossness! She probably would have eventually stopped doing it if we would have stuck to it, but we didn't. DH feels like it is too late to do anything now because she is over a year old.

I'm begining to think we will have to go back to crating her. We kept her in a crate the first month we had her then we gradually let her have more priveleges. For a long time she was confined to "her hallway" when she was home alone but we finally gave her full run of the noncarpeted rooms. That was probably a huge mistake since she wasn't fully potty trained. I hate to start crating her again, but it may be our only option. I'm fed up with her destroying our furniture and floors! She isn't home alone more than 4-5 hours a day so it shouldn't be that traumatic for her

my2girls · 10-13-2004, 11:02 AM

Valerie - Have you tried putting Daisy in a crate when you are not home? We have our Dog, Moose, in a crate while we are at work, and out for any kind of errand and at night time. Dogs will not pee where they have to sleep. We started with a small under 10lb crate and moved him up to a bigger one when he got older. It might seem a little evasive, but it works. Moose knows better than to pee or poop in the house, and will now tell us when he has to go outside.
Also - when Daisy does go in the house, how do you punish her? When we were training Moose, he would get punished with his nose being rubbed in it, then straight to the crate.

Again, it's evasive, but it works.

I hope things get better.
Keep me posted, please.

BritDisFan · 10-13-2004, 11:04 AM

Oh dear putting her nose in it, definately doesn't seem a good idea for her

. I think the crate is the way to go.

Karen

my2girls · 10-13-2004, 11:06 AM

Valerie - you shouldn't have stopped the crate - she should still be in it. Moose is. He turned 1 (2) months ago. The only additional free time he has (when we are not awake to watch him) is in the am, my DH leaves for work at 5:15 - I don't get up until 5:45 - Moose gets put in our bedroom with the door shut. He generally sleeps on the bed with me or lays down on the floor. We are hoping that this will gradually build up to being able to sleep in our room with out the crate. But remember, it takes time. Lot's of time.
Don't give up, don't give extra privledges, don't give in!!!!!

SarahJ · 10-13-2004, 11:48 AM

Val,

You should definitely go back to using the crate when you're not home. Also, I think obedience classes for you and Daisy would be a good thing. You'll need to find a good trainer, prefereably one very active in obedience. You can ask at your vet's office a local boarding kennel or if you have dog show's in your area, go and talk with some of the exhibitors. I definitely think you need to attend with your dog. That will ensure that the training in class and at home is consistent because you'll be learining the same commands and techniques the instructor is using. Plus it will help to establish you as the alpha in Daisy's world.

I have a wonderful trainer here that I work with. I didn't start taking our dog to her until he was about 3 years old, so Daisy is definitely not too old to learn. Before going to the trainer, Rhett never listened to us and was so wild. Now even DD can tell him to lay down or come and he listens. We also board our dog with our trainer when we go on vacation which is wonderful since he gets a refresher every time we leave him with her. Beware that there are some bad trainers out there. My mom had one once who was terrible, she pretty much beat our dog because she didn't stay when they were practicing what's called an out of sight down stay. Its where the owner puts the dog in a down position then leaves the room. We never went back to her and never recommended her to anyone, and she had a big training facility too. A good trainer will always do things in a positive way and make it fun for you and your dog.

Good luck and pixie dust that you and Daisy get over this hurdle!

snoozy · 10-13-2004, 01:43 PM

Sounds like she is having detachment issues. You said she was a puppy a puppy is a puppy for the first 2 years of their life. We have a black lab and she will be 2 in March. She still chews stuff up when we leave the house and she is on her own. Its gotten better but, she also has the cat to chew on as well, they are great friends.

We took her to obediance class, it cost 50.00 and me and DD were the ones who took her through the training. She still needs more training. She won't heal on the leash and doesn't come very well, I'm sure this is because we have not invested the time into her extra training at home. She does seem to mind DH better then anyone.

I was thinking of having her go through a refresher course with DH. My dad always did the obediance classes with our german sheppards and they were the best minding animals I ever had. I think it has to do with that Alpha male thing.

We found the dog trainer through our vet. She was great. As for the chewing that wasn't part of the obediance class. What they cover is sitting, staying, coming, healing on a leash, and excepting strangers and other dogs.

When we go away for trips and have a babysitter come over and check on the animals, let her out, take her for walks, make sure both have food and water and clean litter for the kitty. But, we have to what we call Hanah proof the house. Anything we don't want her to chew up like socks, slipper, etc have got to be put up. As for the furniture we have chunks missing, that was when we were gone for about 10 hours one day and we couldn't take her with us. She hasn't done that anymore.

RobinKay6573 · 10-13-2004, 03:21 PM

Oh, I feel your pain!! I have worked for dogs for about 5 years and I work part-time at dog daycare at the present time. It sounds like your puppy has a bit too much freedom in your house. Have you considered crate training or confining the dog to one area of your house (you know someplace where there are no carpets and she can't get into anything)? There are several good sites that deal with specific doggie discipline issues. I found Perfect Paws and Dog Scouts the best of these types of sites.

You must have plenty of items for your dog to chew on...my dog is a very vigorous chewer and she will chew on anything given a chance BUT she knows the difference between HER toys and MY things. Every time you see your puppy go after something that isn't hers give her a firm "NO" and then give her something she is allowed to chew on. NEVER give her an old shoe or slipper to chew on (unless you want your new shoes and slippers destroyed) dogs can't distinguish between what is new and what is old. Leather is a HUGE draw for dogs remember it is animal hide and yummmmy smells so good! There are some spays on the market that repel dogs that you can spay near or on the furniture that make it less desirable for your pooch (make sure you try a test area and read the directions because some products may damage the furniture). Ask the clerk at the pet store if you have any questions. Kongs are also a great idea for a dog who is a chewer. Kongs are a rubber cone like toy that you can fill with yummy treats. My dog goes nuts when she has a kong filled with goodies.

As far as potty training crating will help with this issue. A dog will not potty where it sleeps. My dog is ALWAYS crated when I am not home. Early on I taught my dog to go potty on cue. I say “Potty” and she looks around to find a place to go. It took many days and many accidents for her to finally get it. I also have a bell hanging from my doorknob that she rings when she is ready to go out. Here is an article on bell training that might help. It really worked for my puppy who I NEVER THOUGHT would ever be potty trained!

It will get better trust me...you just have to work with your dog. Also as far as obedience it is VERY important that YOU be the one training your dog. I NEVER recommend anyone sending their dog out for training. The problem with sending your dog out for training is that the training will be the alpha and the dog will bond and listen and respect the training and NOT you...big...huge mistake! Most Humane Societies offer training classes or you could go to Petco or PetSmart becasue I know they offer training classes as well. I do all my own training at home and I never thought that training classes were necessary.

Have you ever thought about enrolling your dog in daycare (if they have daycare in your area)? My dog get so excited when she knows she is going to daycare...she has a blast with the other dogs and it is great seeing her just be a dog.

GATechGal · 10-13-2004, 03:35 PM

Got to agree with the crate thing. We used to just lock up our dogs at night and they would sometimes go on the papers (we used the puppy training pads a lot - they are sort of like big flat diapers) and sometimes not. But in the new house, we crate them at night and haven't had much trouble. Even with the 15 year old dog. Isn't your dog a lab mix of some sort? Our younger one is a lab and she did just chew on EVERYTHING (including one sofa in our playroom) but after about 2.5 or 3 it just stopped. I think that's a real lab trait. Training never hurts. We haven't done any for Sadie cause she's really scared with folks she doesn't know. Good luck.

vsonnier · 10-13-2004, 05:51 PM

Thanks for all of the advice you guys. I went to Petsmart this afternoon and spent a while talking to one of their trainers. I think we will definitely be signing her up for their class. I really liked everything the guy said as he echoed everything y'all had already told me! We are going to try to go pick up Daisy's old crate from our DMIL's tonight and start over with that tomorrow. I think a lot of the problem is that Daisy really thinks she controls this house. We let her have just about anything she wants and we do pretty much anything she wants us to do. That has to change soon. Hopefully the instructor at Petsmart will be able to give us some ideas for showing her that we are in charge - not the other way around.

As far as potty training...I have to say...my dog has no problem going to the bathroom where she sleeps. When we first got her our vet suggested that we put her in a small crate when we weren't around then take her out immediately to potty. If she doesn't potty when we take her out on the first time, we were told to put her back in the crate and repeat the whole process. Well..Daisy would pee and poo in her crate then roll all around in it. She had no problem with that. We were continuously cleaning it out which is one of the reasons why we stopped crating her. I'm telling you...she is a nasty little dog! She use to be trained to potty on command and was doing very well then suddenly she just stopped. I guess we are going to give the crate a try and see if maybe she has grown out of some of her puppy grossness.

Thanks for all of the advice! I hope it works!