Calling all Europeans, Britains, or people who have travelled to.. About This Page:

[Alaskan Mom]

My dream trip has always been UK and Europe, all the places I've read about and studied, being a history major. I told my DD (17) that for graduation we would go to Europe. She is obsessed with New York City, Paris and especially London. Our planned trip is summer of 2017. I am trying to finalize places and sites but most especially means of travel so that I can finalize a budget which is why I'm seriously planning now. Originally my DH was going to go for part of the trip WWII sites but has decided not to due to time off work and figures it will give us more funds for DD's and my last big hurrah. All that to ask my questions:
1st: DH is concerned about the terrorist attacks he reads about on the news and thinks we would be safer in a tour group but I don't think there would be a difference between a tour group or on our own. What are your thoughts?

2nd. My Nephew and his wife took a 3 week trip last May and got a rail pass and that is what they used along with public transportation however it would cost $567-638 just for me while a rental car and the means to travel anywhere there's a road would be between $500-600 or less. Of course there'd still be gas to buy.

Places planned would be after coming from London to continent, picking up rental car on coast, possibly Calais, then driving up through Dunkirk, Bruges or Brussels, then Haarlem, Netherlands (used to be Holland), over through Germany to Colditz (part way between Berlin and Munich), south to Nuremberg, Munich & Dachau, Saltzberg, Neuschwanstein Castle, Romantic road from south to north, over to Disneyland Paris then return the car and use public transport or flying the rest of the trip. My concern is being able to read road signs although I'm studying German and DD's studying French and I am seriously considering purchasing a GPS with Europe's maps (at least half the cost of renting one), and secondly rules of the road that would be different from the U.S. I am an experienced driver of 40 years, have driven manual and automatic, all sizes of vehicles and driven in all types of weather including snowstorms and on ice and pouring down rain. Should I be concerned about driving in these countries? Would trains take me to where I want to go without much hassle? I'd love all advice and suggestions you have, thanks!

[chezp]

In answer to your questions, it will make absolutely no difference whether you're in a tour group or travelling independently - you are 100% spot on with that. If something's going to happen, it's going to happen and it doesn't matter who you're with. The only difference is with a tour group is that you'd have a guide to help you with any problems you encounter - and heck, smaller problems like illness or pickpocketing are much more likely - but of course you have to balance that with the fact you'll have to pay more for it. Bear in mind, you are in an English speaking country, so you don't have to worry about language differences and there are always people around to help you.

Personally, if you're Ok to drive over here (on a different side of the road ) I'd get a rental car. Our public transport is not exactly renowned for its speed or reliability if I'm being entirely honest. Gas is getting cheaper over here - it's about £1 a litre (four and a half litres to the gallon), so it's about £40-£50 to fill up a car and that works out to $6.30 a gallon. The good news for you is the dollar is currently doing well against the pound. Whether it's doing as well next summer is anyone's guess. The markets don't like uncertainty and of course by then you'll have had presidential elections, so that may impact on the exchange rate. Equally though we have the prospect of a referendum to leave Europe, so that may impact on us too... no real way of telling.

Another option is where tour groups may come in useful. There are plenty of day excursions from London that will take you to the popular places - e.g. Stonehenge and Bath or Dover, Canterbury and Leeds Castle or Windsor Castle and Eton. You can get to places like Oxford and Cambridge pretty easily on the train, so it depends where you plan on going.

Definitely get a rental car with everything you plan on doing on the continent. At least they are on your side of the road... With the road signs, you'll be fine in the main. A lot of them are symbols and don't vary much from one country to another. A GPS with European maps, to me, would be a must. We have an American GPS for our visits over there and we find it absolutely invaluable.

Given your driving experience and the fact you've driven a manual, I think you'll be absolutely fine driving.

[Thomhazel]

I would second what Cheryl is saying. Driving in Europe should be ok but I would get a GPS. A rental car should be easier than trying to public transport.

[Silvercat]

And from what I think is the only other PassPorter from the UK, (me!), I would also think you would be fine driving over here. Yes, get a GPS with a European map, but also back that up with a physical map too if you can - sometimes GPS signals fail! Something else to remember is that you can't turn right on a red light here - it's illegal!

Terrorist attacks are neither here nor there, they could happen anywhere in the world and I don't think anyone should give in to them and give up their travel plans. We can't live in fear of these extremists.

This sounds really exciting, good luck with all the planning and if you have any other questions, I'm sure there will be at least one person on this board who can help!

[Alaskan Mom]

In answer to your questions, it will make absolutely no difference whether you're in a tour group or travelling independently - you are 100% spot on with that. If something's going to happen, it's going to happen and it doesn't matter who you're with. The only difference is with a tour group is that you'd have a guide to help you with any problems you encounter - and heck, smaller problems like illness or pickpocketing are much more likely - but of course you have to balance that with the fact you'll have to pay more for it. Bear in mind, you are in an English speaking country, so you don't have to worry about language differences and there are always people around to help you.

Personally, if you're Ok to drive over here (on a different side of the road ) I'd get a rental car. Our public transport is not exactly renowned for its speed or reliability if I'm being entirely honest. Gas is getting cheaper over here - it's about £1 a litre (four and a half litres to the gallon), so it's about £40-£50 to fill up a car and that works out to $6.30 a gallon. The good news for you is the dollar is currently doing well against the pound. Whether it's doing as well next summer is anyone's guess. The markets don't like uncertainty and of course by then you'll have had presidential elections, so that may impact on the exchange rate. Equally though we have the prospect of a referendum to leave Europe, so that may impact on us too... no real way of telling.

Another option is where tour groups may come in useful. There are plenty of day excursions from London that will take you to the popular places - e.g. Stonehenge and Bath or Dover, Canterbury and Leeds Castle or Windsor Castle and Eton. You can get to places like Oxford and Cambridge pretty easily on the train, so it depends where you plan on going.

Definitely get a rental car with everything you plan on doing on the continent. At least they are on your side of the road... With the road signs, you'll be fine in the main. A lot of them are symbols and don't vary much from one country to another. A GPS with European maps, to me, would be a must. We have an American GPS for our visits over there and we find it absolutely invaluable.

Given your driving experience and the fact you've driven a manual, I think you'll be absolutely fine driving.




Thanks for confirming what I thought about tour group verses independent. I wanted to reassure my DH. I'm usually the one who says lets ask for directions/help etc so although a tour group would eliminate the need for those types of questions I prefer the freedom to go when & where I want (too independent I guess).

I have been really nervous even thinking about driving U.K. roads due to being on the opposite side, which is why I opted not to. We are staying mostly in London, a day tour to Leeds/Dover/Greenwich - DD wants to go to Bletchley and another place that seemed farther out. I'm trying to decide between Highclere Castle (Downtown Abbey) or Warner Brothers studio - I've planned 3 tour type days outside of London which is why I have an "or" for the castle or studio. The rest of the time will be spent in London and I was planning on using public transport. Even if your public transport is not fantastic, wouldn't it be easier for me to use it rather than try to drive in the city?

I am glad the dollar is doing a little better, I hope we continue to do better because London will be our most expensive stop, especially since we are planning ten days there.

Thanks for the yes vote to a GPS, sounds like it's a must. I appreciate knowing road signs are symbols - less translating. Thanks too, for the vote of confidence on me driving.

[Alaskan Mom]

Originally Posted by Thomhazel

I would second what Cheryl is saying. Driving in Europe should be ok but I would get a GPS. A rental car should be easier than trying to public transport.

Thanks! DD wants a train ride and I know we'll get a shorter ride, and on a bus or two, a ferry and planes of course. I have always liked the freedom a rental car gives me. We can stop if we see a photo-op or to have a picnic when it strikes our fancy which we cannot do on a tour. Sounds like a GPS is the definite way to go.

Originally Posted by Silvercat

And from what I think is the only other PassPorter from the UK, (me!), I would also think you would be fine driving over here. Yes, get a GPS with a European map, but also back that up with a physical map too if you can - sometimes GPS signals fail! Something else to remember is that you can't turn right on a red light here - it's illegal!

Terrorist attacks are neither here nor there, they could happen anywhere in the world and I don't think anyone should give in to them and give up their travel plans. We can't live in fear of these extremists.

This sounds really exciting, good luck with all the planning and if you have any other questions, I'm sure there will be at least one person on this board who can help!

I am a map (paper) person and will definitely carry one with me, actually DD has become quite good at reading maps because I drive and ask her where's the next...? So she has gotten lots of practice.

Thanks for the red light info, is that in Western Europe? It would make sense to not turn right in U.K. as one is on the opposite side of the road.

I agree about the terrorists, I'm not going to give up my dream trip because of a possible problem.

Thanks much for the info and encouragement!

[Alaskan Mom]

I really appreciate all the information ladies, thanks!

If you have been -in the following major cities what would be your top 3-5 attractions/historical sites/museums ect that you would consider a must do (London can be more because we will be there longer) even one that's not necessarily for tourists but maybe the place that visitors rarely go to because it's not advertised but the locals/residents know about it.

London
Bruges or Brussels
Munich
Salzberg
Paris
Athens
Venice

Next question: what are some of the grocery store chains? Or at least names of grocery stores in London, Munich, & Paris? In these cities we are staying in a self-catering hotels so that we will make our meals or a picnic to take with us.

Thanks again!

[Alaskan Mom]

Cheryl just mentioned in my DLR trip about carry ons on European airlines.

Here's a quick rundown of current working itinerary and modes of transport

Fly - Sea-Tac WA to New York City 4 days (public transport)
Fly Virgin Atlantic NYC to London 10 days (public transport)
Train from London to Portsmouth or Dover
Ferry Portsmouth or Dover to Calais, France
most likely spend the night here
then pick up rental car and drive as listed in earlier post and after DP driving back to Calais to return rental -
Train to Paris 4 nights (public transport)
Fly from Paris to Athens 2 nights plus a tour Athens and Greek islands
Fly Athens to Venice 2-3 nights (public transport/walking)
Fly to London to return home

I'm trying to decide how much luggage to take, I've looked up carry on restrictions for Virgin Atlantic and for other European airlines which are smaller than Virgin. I'm trying to figure out how to cart around luggage without it being too much especially on trains, buses, subways and so on while getting back and forth from airports and hotels, ideas?

[chezp]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Mom

Thanks for confirming what I thought about tour group verses independent. I wanted to reassure my DH. I'm usually the one who says lets ask for directions/help etc so although a tour group would eliminate the need for those types of questions I prefer the freedom to go when & where I want (too independent I guess).

Oh gosh, I am so with you about having the freedom to go where you want. To me, that's definitely the way to go.

I have been really nervous even thinking about driving U.K. roads due to being on the opposite side, which is why I opted not to.

Honestly, it really isn't that big a deal. I find it harder when we're walking abroad, as I tend to look the "wrong" way first, if that makes sense?

We are staying mostly in London, a day tour to Leeds/Dover/Greenwich - DD wants to go to Bletchley and another place that seemed farther out. I'm trying to decide between Highclere Castle (Downtown Abbey) or Warner Brothers studio - I've planned 3 tour type days outside of London which is why I have an "or" for the castle or studio.

If you plan on going to Highclere Castle, you will need to be prepared to book online in advance. I don't know what schedule they use to open up their bookings, but I've looked at it a couple of times for a friend who loves Downtown Abbey and every time I've looked, it's been sold out. It's a very hot ticket!

The rest of the time will be spent in London and I was planning on using public transport. Even if your public transport is not fantastic, wouldn't it be easier for me to use it rather than try to drive in the city?

London is about the only place in the UK that I would recommend using public transport. We sometimes drive up there and it is a hassle. It's much easier to take the Tube - and for a visitor, that's a must!

[chezp]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Mom

I really appreciate all the information ladies, thanks!

If you have been -in the following major cities what would be your top 3-5 attractions/historical sites/museums ect that you would consider a must do (London can be more because we will be there longer) even one that's not necessarily for tourists but maybe the place that visitors rarely go to because it's not advertised but the locals/residents know about it.

London
Bruges or Brussels
Munich
Salzberg
Paris
Athens
Venice

Oh gosh, that's a toughie. It partially depends what you're interested in. If you haven't already, I'd check out the Dorling Kindersley range of guidebooks, as I swear by those for giving you the low-down on places. I love them and I have the ones for every place on your list bar Salzberg, although I haven't actually made it to all of them.

With London, most visitors want to see the Houses of Parliament and Big Ben, Buckingham Palace, the Tower of London, Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's Cathedral, the Changing of the Guard etc. Other things I'd recommend are the London Eye, shopping in Oxford Street, Trafalgar Square, some of the museums (the British Museum, the Natural History Museum, Science Museum and the V&A - the latter three are in Kensington within walking distance of each other) and a cruise along the River Thames. There is so much more too - that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

With Bruges, to me it's about taking a boat ride along the canals and exploring the squares. The main square (Grote Markt I think...) is stunning, as is the neighbouring square, which has the Burg in it. The chocolate museum is interesting, but we were a bit disappointed at the lack of samples there. We also love the Bejinhof - beautiful and very tranquil. It's a lovely place to wander around for a couple of hours, but honestly it's not a place you'd stay days in. I did a day trip there with a friend a couple of years ago. It's a good stop on the way to Brussels...

... which brings me to Belgium's capital. The Grote Markt is the place to go and everyone always wants to see the Manneken Pis (he's smaller than you imagine) and the Atomium. I did a trip report about our weekend away in Brussels, which might help.

We haven't been to Munich or Salzberg, so I can't help with either of those. With Paris, the obvious ones are the Eiffel Tower, a cruise along the River Seine, the Notre Dame, the Arc de Triomphe, the Sacre Coeur, the Louvre and we love walking up through the Tuileries, Place de la Concorde and up the Champs Elysees. Again, I did a day trip there with a friend recently, so that may help you.

With Athens, we stopped there for a day on our Med cruise and the obvious place to head for was the Acropolis. We did it early, as it was 100+ degrees on the day we visited, then we went to the New Acropolis Museum, not to be missed, that was excellent.

We took the Med cruise out of Venice, but it was our second visit there and we did the main touristy things on our first visit in 2001 - St. Mark's Square, including St. Mark's Basilica, the Doge's Palace and the Campanile. On this day, we visited Ca’ Rezzonica, which was excellent and we took our friends to Murano the next day, as we loved our first visit there. When we returned there at the end of our Med cruise, we did an evening gondola ride, which was lovely. Honestly, it's the sort of place where a lot of the time you can just watch the sights go up either sitting somewhere and enjoying the scenery or by taking one of the many water taxis through the city.

Next question: what are some of the grocery store chains? Or at least names of grocery stores in London, Munich, & Paris? In these cities we are staying in a self-catering hotels so that we will make our meals or a picnic to take with us.

In London, look out for Tesco, Sainsbury's & M&S Food is good for sandwiches. Hazel will know about Paris more than I do, but Carrefour immediately comes to my mind, along with Auchan, but those are more my stops at out of city places, rather than in the middle of Paris. I assume they have smaller versions in Paris itself?

[chezp]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Mom

Cheryl just mentioned in my DLR trip about carry ons on European airlines.

Here's a quick rundown of current working itinerary and modes of transport

Fly - Sea-Tac WA to New York City 4 days (public transport)
Fly Virgin Atlantic NYC to London 10 days (public transport)
Train from London to Portsmouth or Dover
Ferry Portsmouth or Dover to Calais, France
most likely spend the night here
then pick up rental car and drive as listed in earlier post and after DP driving back to Calais to return rental -
Train to Paris 4 nights (public transport)
Fly from Paris to Athens 2 nights plus a tour Athens and Greek islands
Fly Athens to Venice 2-3 nights (public transport/walking)
Fly to London to return home

I'm trying to decide how much luggage to take, I've looked up carry on restrictions for Virgin Atlantic and for other European airlines which are smaller than Virgin. I'm trying to figure out how to cart around luggage without it being too much especially on trains, buses, subways and so on while getting back and forth from airports and hotels, ideas?

I'm not going to be that much help here, as we usually have a rental car, but with returning the rental to Calais, could you perhaps return it to one of the Paris airports maybe? Then you could take the train from there to your hotel and if you plan it right and find a hotel that's easily accessible by train, then that might make things a bit easier? Taxis might also be worth looking into - I appreciate they cost more, but it would be easier. It might also be worth considering booking a transfer for some of the airports into cities?

[Thomhazel]

Unless you really want to visit Calais why not take the train from London to Paris and pick up your rental car somewhere in Paris and return it to the same spot it's always cheaper?

Carrefour is the supermarket we used in Paris although central Paris people tend to shop in outdoor markets and little food stores fruit and veg stores butchers etc as the French way of life is to buy a days food at a time not stock up. Fruit and veg sold at the markets is usually pretty excellent. We used to make meals out of French bread and cheese or ham as the bread is so beautiful and nip out to the bakers for croissants for breakfast.

[Alaskan Mom]

Originally Posted by chezp

Oh gosh, I am so with you about having the freedom to go where you want. To me, that's definitely the way to go.

You too? I even rented a vehicle at WDW just so I could come & go when I wanted. Just the way I was raised I guess.

Honestly, it really isn't that big a deal. I find it harder when we're walking abroad, as I tend to look the "wrong" way first, if that makes sense?

It does, you are checking to your right expecting traffic, when in the U.S. it's coming from the left.

[QUOTE] If you plan on going to Highclere Castle, you will need to be prepared to book online in advance. I don't know what schedule they use to open up their bookings, but I've looked at it a couple of times for a friend who loves Downtown Abbey and every time I've looked, it's been sold out. It's a very hot ticket! [/QUOTE}
I figured that would be the case, and the hotel we want to stay in in Saltzberg will need to be booked a year or more in advance too.

London is about the only place in the UK that I would recommend using public transport. We sometimes drive up there and it is a hassle. It's much easier to take the Tube - and for a visitor, that's a must!

I figured that, from what I've read London is very large.

[Alaskan Mom]

"Oh gosh, that's a toughie. It partially depends what you're interested in."

I love history and museums but both of us are interested iconic landmarks in each city. I want to see places that were in my favorite Disney movies like St. Pauls Catherdal (Mary Poppins- I'm sure wasn't actually filmed there but would like to see the real thing and how it compares to Disney's rendition

Quote:
If you haven't already, I'd check out the Dorling Kindersley range of guidebooks, as I swear by those for giving you the low-down on places. I love them and I have the ones for every place on your list bar Salzberg, although I haven't actually made it to all of them.
I'll tell a funny on myself. I went to Amazon to search Dorling Kindersley, I thought she must be a British author as I had not heard of her before. The results popped up and began with the Knowledge Encyclopedia & The Philosophy Book. Since neither were travel books I next googled her and while scrolling down the page saw the large red DK logo, I knew DK books! I've even checked DK's Eyewiteness travel books from the library. It took me awhile but I finally figured it out. I've been reading travel books but too many all recommend the same thing or give limited basic information. If I remember correctly DK gives more details so I'll get some of those. Thanks

Quote:
With London, most visitors want to see the Houses of Parliament and Big Ben, Buckingham Palace, the Tower of London, Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's Cathedral, the Changing of the Guard etc. Other things I'd recommend are the London Eye, shopping in Oxford Street, Trafalgar Square, some of the museums (the British Museum, the Natural History Museum, Science Museum and the V&A - the latter three are in Kensington within walking distance of each other) and a cruise along the River Thames. There is so much more too - that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Most of those are on my list except Oxford Street because I have Portobello road on my list because of Bedknobs and Broomsticks. The British Museum and Natural History are both definites; I had not planned on the Science Museum, what is interesting there? I currently have a question mark by the V&A, just because we do have to pick and choose somewhat. Thanks for the list Cheryl.

Quote:
With Bruges, to me it's about taking a boat ride along the canals and exploring the squares. The main square (Grote Markt I think...) is stunning, as is the neighbouring square, which has the Burg in it. The chocolate museum is interesting, but we were a bit disappointed at the lack of samples there. We also love the Bejinhof - beautiful and very tranquil. It's a lovely place to wander around for a couple of hours, but honestly it's not a place you'd stay days in. I did a day trip there with a friend a couple of years ago. It's a good stop on the way to Brussels... ... which brings me to Belgium's capital. The Grote Markt is the place to go and everyone always wants to see the Manneken Pis (he's smaller than you imagine) and the Atomium. I did a trip report about our weekend away in Brussels, which might help.
We are doing either Bruges or Brussells on our way north so I am trying to decide. Thank you for sharing your top attractions and TR's - they could help me decide

Quote:
We haven't been to Munich or Salzberg, so I can't help with either of those. With Paris, the obvious ones are the Eiffel Tower, a cruise along the River Seine, the Notre Dame, the Arc de Triomphe, the Sacre Coeur, the Louvre and we love walking up through the Tuileries, Place de la Concorde and up the Champs Elysees. Again, I did a day trip there with a friend recently, so that may help you.
Awesome, thanks for sharing your day trip, I will check it out.

[QUOTE]With Athens, we stopped there for a day on our Med cruise and the obvious place to head for was the Acropolis. We did it early, as it was 100+ degrees on the day we visited, then we went to the New Acropolis Museum, not to be missed, that was excellent. [/QUOTE}
That was way too hot! I hope it's not that hot when we visit.

Quote:
We took the Med cruise out of Venice, but it was our second visit there and we did the main touristy things on our first visit in 2001 - St. Mark's Square, including St. Mark's Basilica, the Doge's Palace and the Campanile. On this day, we visited Ca’ Rezzonica, which was excellent and we took our friends to Murano the next day, as we loved our first visit there. When we returned there at the end of our Med cruise, we did an evening gondola ride, which was lovely. Honestly, it's the sort of place where a lot of the time you can just watch the sights go up either sitting somewhere and enjoying the scenery or by taking one of the many water taxis through the city.

Well it looks like I better get reading, thanks for all the links Cheryl.
__________________

[Alaskan Mom]

Originally Posted by chezp

I'm not going to be that much help here, as we usually have a rental car, but with returning the rental to Calais, could you perhaps return it to one of the Paris airports maybe? Then you could take the train from there to your hotel and if you plan it right and find a hotel that's easily accessible by train, then that might make things a bit easier? Taxis might also be worth looking into - I appreciate they cost more, but it would be easier. It might also be worth considering booking a transfer for some of the airports into cities?

I'll look into returning the car to Paris since it's not too far from Calais. One of the reasons I hadn't planned on it was because orginally I looked at picking up a rental in one country and dropping off in another and it was an extra $400.00. I will be looking at transfers from airports to cities, one of the things on my to do list.

Originally Posted by Thomhazel

Unless you really want to visit Calais why nit take the train from London to Paris and pick up your rental car somewhere in Paris and return it to the same spot it's always cheaper?

Carrefour is the supermarket we used in Paris although central Paris people tend to shop in outdoor markets and little food stores fruit and veg stores butchers etc as the French way of life is to buy a days food at a time not stock up. Fruit and veg sold at the markets is usually pretty excellent. We used to make meals out of French bread and cheese or ham as the bread is so beautiful and nip out to the bakers for croissants for breakfast.

I'm nervous about driving in Paris, how horrendous is it? All the quide books I've read said do not drive in the big cities. The other reason is because I really want to cross the channel where I can see and enjoy the ocean and crossing. I know the train is faster but I want to also have the experience of the crossing. I've went back and forth on this issue and am currently with a ferry crossing and picking up the car on the coast before heading north. I've read about picking up their food for the day, I might try it depending on how close we are to a grocery store or a market. DD would love croissants for breakfast