My nice kid is lying, what to do??
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Starbright · 01-09-2013, 11:33 AM

I have a really good kid. He is wonderful, thoughtful, treats everyone with respect. A good good child. He is 11. He has a problem. He lies too easily to me. I just found out yet again, that he didn't do his homework when I went over the notes the teacher sends home every day via computer. I asked him last night straight out (looked him in the eye etc) if he had done his science and he said "yes" but did his spelling (which I helped him with). Then, this morning, he confesses that he didn't do it. I was livid. I was always taught not to lie to your parents, and maybe I am a nerd, but honestly, I didn't lie much to my mother. He is upset when he is caught, so I give him that. I found out that in his former school, he lied about his homework there too, and they never told me, so it went forward

. This teacher in our new community, caught him for the first time in Sept and this is when we started to find things out.
I took away his computer, his ipod, and I have grounded him from his best friend (I didn't tell his friend why, and I figure this is his problem). Am I being too harsh? Should I do more? I keep telling him that if he doesn't do well this yr, he will be kept back and have to deal with this teacher again, whom he detests. In some ways, I just want to shrug this off. Ds takes things so personally, so now, I am going to have to try to build up his self esteem because I was harsh with him, even though these are my values. So I have screwed it up for myself too, and I feel like I am going to be stroking his ego to get him to feel better about himself and I am going to have to work twice as hard to rebuild his self esteem. I am very close to ds but so disappointed. No matter what I do, I feel like I am messing it up as a parent. What do I do???? Help. I am so confused.

JoanneS · 01-09-2013, 12:34 PM

I think our DS's are twins! I went through the same thing last year and it has trickled over a bit this year. DS is 14 and very bright, but lazy. He will do just the minimum to get by. For instance, to stay in advanced algegra, he needed to have an 85% average. So he would only answer enough questions to get to the 85% and then leave the end of the exam blank. Who does this? We were tough on him, too. At one point, he had to do all his homework at the dining room table, not in his room, and he had to show it to me, completely finished. We were really on him for a long time, but we've finally backed off a bit. Sure enough, he has some homework in English that he hasn't handed in.

We explained the consequences and the repercussions for lying and not doing homework and we've stuck by them. Things are slowly improving, but if we're not vigilent and consistent, he slides back. We're doing the best we can, but I feel your pain. I DO NOT like to discipline my kids. Sometimes being a parent is so hard.

I think it's the age where they take things personally, but don't let that deter you in your discipline. Remember, if you lay out the rules and the consequences, and he messes up, he has no one to blame but himself. I like to tell him, "you are too smart to be this lazy." It's my way of complimenting him and disciplining him all at the same time. I'm always telling him that I love him too much to let him turn into a slug or "you're such a good kid, too good to be lying to me like this."

I tell you, they ought to come with a manual.

**HiddenMickey** · 01-09-2013, 12:59 PM

I agree that doing homework in a place that the parent can supervise is necessary. How you ensure that he's telling you about everything he needs to do each night is a harder thing. Is there a way for you to check?

How long are his electronics and friend taken from him? How can he earn them back? Can't tell if you are being too harsh or not.

Also, if there is a school counselor, you might talk to him/her about this situation. I'm sure they've encountered it before and might have some insight.

Good luck!

Ashli · 01-09-2013, 01:33 PM

I think you have gotten some great advice. I was going to say the same thing as JoanneS - "I think our DS's are twins!" My DS (11) seems to think that homework is just a suggestion from the teacher, not something he actually HAS to do.

He has to show me his completed homework each night now. Fortunately, his school (he's in a charter middle school) requires teachers to put homework assignments online - for the parents. Students are required to carry a dated binder where they write their homework for each night. I like this because he is still required to be responsible for writing down his assignments, yet he knows I am able to (and do) check each day to make sure he's actually writing them all down. It's so frustrating to me because by the time I was in middle school I did not need my mom to enforce my homework every night - I just knew that it was my responsibility to do it and it needed to be done. I don't think you're being too harsh. My DS does not get computer/video game privileges during the weekdays at all because that time is meant for homework, studying, and reading. I probably haven't said too much that is helpful or you didn't already know, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. It's not you - it's the age!

(I don't know if it's a girl/boy difference or just a time period difference, but I would have been mortified to go to school and have to tell the teacher I didn't have my work. Why DS doesn't seem phased by this I have no idea....)

Thomhazel · 01-09-2013, 01:49 PM

I explained to mine that when the chips were really down and they had a serious problem or had made a bad mistake his parents were gonna be the ones in his corner no matter what. I went through the if we can trust you how can we defend you and how can we fix things. I try and be really open with mine about the reasons for things I don't just say no I go over the pros and cons and involve them in the discussion. I make sure they know I consider lying very wrong it doesn't work every time but nothing we have had progress. As for homework I play hardball if I can trust you I won't get involved but if I can't trust you you will do two hours a day in front of me at the dining room table and before I allow you to stop I want evidence you have done two hours worth or you carry on. Trust worked for my daughter hard ball is improving my sons

Teresa · 01-09-2013, 02:24 PM

You've gotten some wonderful advise. Here's what we did: we stopped it all. We sat our kids down once they reached middle school and laid it all out for them. To succeed at high school, you have to do well in middle school. To get into a good university and succeed there, you have to do well in high school. We do NOT expect straight As. We watched too many of older DD Samantha's friends develop serious issues when their parents expected straight As (self-doubt when they didn't do well, suicide attempts, lying, cheating on tests and assignments, behavioural issues).
Anyway: after we told our kids we expected them to do the best they could, we stepped back. WE have already done middle school/high school homework. I do not wish to do it again. I am here for questions, but I will not monitor/do the work with or for them. I will not check to see if they've turned in an assignment day to day. Once they reach high school, we don't even check report cards. I know when they come out, but I only see them if the kid wants me to.
If I remove myself from asking "Did you do your homework?" or "Have you studied for that test?" they don't have to lie to me!

As for rebuilding your son's self esteem. I truly wouldn't worry about it. He messed up, he knows it and so do you. Thank him for coming clean, and go on with your lives. Don't punish him for lying before - by doing that, he'll learn it doesn't do to tell the truth, even if a bit belatedly. Give him back his privileges and go on from now. Explain what will happen if he keeps it up -whether you take my advise or someone else's or devise your own plan.
Just for a reference; my father always believed in making the punishment way more severe than it "should" be. I lied to him once as a child. I got spanked with a belt - and never lied to him again. I'm not condoning spanking with belts, especially for an 11 year old, but I am saying - make the next punishment known and make it severe. ie: lie and you lose your phone, period. you don't get a new one until college. And you can NEVER be anywhere where you don't have access to a public phone until then. Then, if he lies - stick to it.

CinderAbby · 01-09-2013, 02:41 PM

Homework is a part of life. I didn't like it when I was in school and Abby doesn't like it now. I too have had periods where she told me homework was done when it wasn't (last year actually, 11 YO, 6th grade). She would tell teachers she left homework at home and she would tell me she forgot it at school. So IMO, it's really just the age, not intentional lying. Do I think your son should have consequences for it anyway? Yes, I do. Threatening that he will stay back isn't the way to do it (at least I don't think it is) but taking away the phone, other electronics, yeah I agree with that. I've done both with Abby and she responded better to the no electronics than the "you'll stay back." I think the threat is what eats away at the self esteem and I stopped doing it. Just my two cents on the matter. And FWIW, this year has been so much better with homework getting done and on time than last year.

Starbright · 01-09-2013, 04:36 PM

Thanks everyone!!!! Atleast I know that I am not alone.
I do have to discipline him. This isnt' the first time, and he knows he looses his electronics if he lies. The ipod and computer (mindcraft gone) is put away til Friday night. He won't be allowed to be with his best friend either til Friday night. I spoke to his friends mother (I ski and do coffee with her) and she understands. It just bothers me that he can look at me in the eyes and lie right out to me-really?! That is so wrong. And I guess he has been doing it for yrs without me catching on and without the teachers telling me, which really makes me feel like a fool.

I have praised this child so much. We are very close, and I appreciate him so much and I tell him so. He knows right from wrong. But he has gotten into this victim role and feels like he can play it too much when he does something wrong and I don't want this. I try to explain to him that if I make the decision to speed and the police catch me, I have to pay the ticket even if I say "I am sorry". Consequences for my actions. I have told him that I love him, but not his behaviour etc. I try to do the right thing. But I have a friend who says that atleast ds is a nice boy, and that he is polite, and wonderful when he goes into someones home etc etc, and this makes me feel terrible for discipling him, but he knew this when he chose to do this.

JoanneS, yes, i think we do have twins LOL except for the 85% part. It is so difficult. It sounds like we have the same type of program. We have homeworkknow and I read off the stuff his teacher sent for that day, and he denied he had any homework. Atleast he did admit it to me that he didn't do it, but was it for me, or afraid of his teacher (I would be afraid of her too lol)

Thankyou everyone for sharing!!!!!

I can't let this be a reflection on me, but I wonder why he acts like this when dh and I try to be good examples.

**Fortissimo** · 01-09-2013, 05:43 PM

As a middle school teacher, the first thing I do when a child is not turning in his or her homework is ask them why. Why are you not doing the work? Because you don't want to? Do you not understand something? Are you afraid of getting a bad grade? Or are you not making time for your hw? (playing video games, watching tv, etc.)

Try to get him to understand why he is not doing the homework. Once he understands what is keeping him from doing the work and over coming that reason, he will be more likely to just do the work. Then we won't have to lie about it.

Truthfully, many kids at this age can't really see 5 minutes into their lives. They don't understand what they do today can and will affect what they do later. Homework is not really that important to a lot of kids. Really, it isn't. It's not they are lazy, but they don't understand why it is given and how it will help them. Since they can't see 4 years into their future they don't understand not getting a concept right or understaning the concept now will hold them back from understanding more difficult concepts in the future. Some kids may just be lazy, but most kids who don't do their work don't think about why they need to do it.

You're doing it right!

KHarrod · 01-10-2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortissimo

As a middle school teacher, the first thing I do when a child is not turning in his or her homework is ask them why. Why are you not doing the work? Because you don't want to? Do you not understand something? Are you afraid of getting a bad grade? Or are you not making time for your hw? (playing video games, watching tv, etc.)

Try to get him to understand why he is not doing the homework. Once he understands what is keeping him from doing the work and over coming that reason, he will be more likely to just do the work. Then we won't have to lie about it.

Truthfully, many kids at this age can't really see 5 minutes into their lives. They don't understand what they do today can and will affect what they do later. Homework is not really that important to a lot of kids. Really, it isn't. It's not they are lazy, but they don't understand why it is given and how it will help them. Since they can't see 4 years into their future they don't understand not getting a concept right or understaning the concept now will hold them back from understanding more difficult concepts in the future. Some kids may just be lazy, but most kids who don't do their work don't think about why they need to do it.

You're doing it right!

I absolutely LOVE this response and agree completely. There typically is an underlying reason why homework is not getting done. I also agree with doing homework in a location other than in the bedroom and away from distractions. You do not need to stand over DS' shoulder, but at least you can see he's doing the work and away from the distractions in his bedroom.

feonag · 01-10-2013, 09:17 AM

Kids lie. Judge Judy has a great saying "do you know when your teenager is lying? Whenever they open their mouths". LOL Punish him like you did but don't go back and "stroke his ego". Then they think that you feel guilty for doing the right thing. Our grandparents sure as heck did not feel guilty for teaching their kids right from wrong and neither should we. In fact if he keeps it up you should make the punishment worse. my oldest does the same thing and she gets punished and does fine for a while and just a kids will do she tries it again to see if she can get away with it, that's just how they are. We have to stick to our guns.

Starbright · 01-10-2013, 11:33 AM

Thanks everyone

I spoke to ds about it. There was no real reason why he didn't do his homework except he says that some teachers are saying that he won't need some of this stuff later in life, so I challanged him on that theory too (ie: if he goes into university/college and takes an English class). He has to understand that he doesn't choose what he gets to learn etc. We will continue to talk to him about it.
He started to cry and call himself a bad person. I wouldn't have it. I refused to stroke his ego this time. I just told him again that his behaviour was bad but that he was still a good person, and to make changes. I didn't dwell on it like i would before. i refused to go down that road again. We kept it short and to the point. He was better and got over it faster.
Robin: thankyou for the advise too and encouragement!!!!! Sometimes I think his teacher must think we are terrible parents because he does these things and I take it personally too how he preforms. He is a great kid but lazy and he doesnt' get it from either me or dh.
Thanks again everyone

GATechGal · 01-10-2013, 11:56 AM

Sounds like you're on the right track. I agree with Teresa on this - homework is his responsibility and if he doesn't do it he has to suffer the consequences. My DS16 got a B in Chemistry this past semister because he got 2 Fs on a NOTEBOOK CHECK. How dumb is that? It's an easy 100, but he go a 50 because he thinks it's stupid and doesn't want to do it. That's part of his daily grade that's 40% of the total grade. He could have had an A. So we've given him a hard time about it, and if he doesn't compensate for it on the other grades there may be further consequences.
If you really feel like the homework thing is a big problem, I recommend the book "Ending the Homework Hassel" by John Rosemond. I used his techniques with our daughter when she was in elementary school and it worked great.

Nova · 01-10-2013, 01:38 PM

Your sure not alone, Maybe he needs to suffer the consequence that the school dishes out when homework isnt done, be it a bad grade or staying after school. I tried to make my kids realize school work was just like a job, if you didnt do it there were consequences and school work was their job. It worked most of the time. I know our one Son could of done better in school than he did, but it was his choice to get the grades he got or have done better. I think if he learns that now, then when he goes off to higher education where you may not have as much contact with him he will do it on his own. Once you dole out a punishment trying to make them feel better is kind of defeating the punishment. Do you feel that what you took away will make him do his homework and not lie? I think that is a hard thing as parents to find a punishment that fits the exact problem we are having with our kids. Good luck hope he finds it easier to tell the truth rather than lie. Sounds like he is a great kid.

minemoz1 · 01-11-2013, 11:39 PM

I agree with the advice you received. I have heard many similar stories from others about this age and homework. Just be consistent and offer rewards for doing his homework along with the punishments for not. With my niece and nephew, I found I had more success by rewarding them with an extra 1/2 hour of video games, going for their favorite treat (Dairy Queen), etc. I also had access to a homework hotline in middle school so I knew what was assigned and when it was due.

When we had my nephew staying with us, his teacher recommended placing him in an additional remedial math class as his skills weren't up to speed. Dh agreed. Nephew was MAD. He didn't think he needed it. In three weeks he was out of the class. He wasn't applying himself in the regular class and finally "woke up" and did the work. Sometimes it takes something very drastic to happen for them to realize it is important. Good Luck!