Fantasyland expansion About This Page:

[typical disney dad]

Originally Posted by Pax

That is absolutely not what anyone here is even remotely suggesting!

The "problem" is that a lot of the Fantasyland expansion really did seem to be focussed on the "girl" side of the equation. Most boys in the 7-11 range don't care for the whole Princesses thing. So the question arises, in some minds at least: "Disney is supposed to have a broad-based, boy-or-girl-young-or-old-who-cares sort of appeal. The new Fantasyland sounds like boys, especially aged 7 to 11 (-ish) will generally be bored or uninterested for most of it. Why?"

Noone is saying "take the girls' stuff away". Rather, they're saying "can we ADD something, for the boys?"

Actually, people were suggesting taking the planned Ariel ride and turning it into an Atlantis ride, or other boy-centric movie-based ride. So, because the ride is based on what is among the MOST popular movies among girls, suddenly it needs to be made more macho. And Tinkerbell's meet-and-greet needs to be turned into a shooting gallery...it's a meet-and-greet!

WHY aren't Belle or Ariel...leads of two of the top money makers and most popular Fantasy movies in the canon not welcome?

If you look at the original designs, it is clear what they wanted to do, was take Toon-Town, which had become the location for these Princesses to meet the fans (which includes some boys) and them it to make it seem like they weren't just dropped in there as an after thought. The boys you are so worried about not wanting to go there...well, they currently don't want to go there...but the new designs actually make it more appealing to them...but of course, people just see that it is based on the princes movies and assume boys won't like it.

And the Castle...if you think it appeals to boys just because it is a castle, then every aspect of the new design for Fantasyland would too. The imposing French Manor house, the cool fantasy forest. My point was the way some people are reacting, they would demand that it not be Cinderella's Castle at all, because boys don't care about Cinderella, so it would be a giant rocketship or volcano...because "girls would also like that."

T

[Pax]

Originally Posted by typical disney dad

Actually, people were suggesting taking the planned Ariel ride and turning it into an Atlantis ride, or other boy-centric movie-based ride.

*ahem*

I suggested that they could re-purpose the Ariel ride (which is 99% girl, 1% boy) to an Atlantis ride (which, IMO, is about 50/50 - it has more than one strong female character, and one of them is essentially a co-lead ... and should be counted as a disney Princess, anyway.)

I never said "other boy-centric movie ride", either.

So, because the ride is based on what is among the MOST popular movies among girls, suddenly it needs to be made more macho.

Not even remotely similar to what I said. Do not put words in my mouth, Sir. I offered it up as one possibility, among a number of things any one of which would tilt the balance back to what I, personally, would consider 50/50.

And Tinkerbell's meet-and-greet needs to be turned into a shooting gallery...it's a meet-and-greet!

Reading comprehension = /FAIL.

I suggested ADDING a ride that would be like TSMM, but with a NEverland / Peter Pan theme.

I then supported preserving a specifically-Tinkerbell Meet-and-Greet, and offered up an idea that I thought owuld make the boys go "woah, cool" right alongside the girls. Nothing would be taken away fromthe girls, it would just have the sort of wow-facto that would get those little boys to look PAST the "but, it's for girls" reflex that's so common at that age.

WHY aren't Belle or Ariel...leads of two of the top money makers and most popular Fantasy movies in the canon not welcome?

*AHEM*, again. I was the one that pointed out that Belle is already a fairly balanced "appeals to girls and boys" character, and needed nothing to make sure the boys wanted to go, too.

[...] people just see that it is based on the princes movies and assume boys won't like it. [...]

You should try making less-gigantic assumptions. That way when you trip and drop them, you aren't crushed under their vast weight.

Disney's presentation of the princesses is very much oriented towards girls and away from boys. Boys from around 7 until around 11 (and often past that, into the early teens) are actively averse to the overabundance of pink, sparkles, and frilly/fluffy/feathery stuff Disney has insisted on pushing as "Princess" gear.

[Dave Marx]

The Little Mermaid is a classic, Atlantis is close to a zero. Sure, an Atlantis ride could be built, but people will care far more for a ride based on a film and story with which they're familiar, regardless of gender bias.

I think that a fair bit of the "creative criticism" of the Fantasyland Expansion has to do with an aversion to Disney Princess merchandise. Yeah, Ariel's a part of that merchandise line (and there's nothing in that merchandise line that's likely to appeal to most boys), but maybe some folks are too focused on the merchandise to remember that the film has a far broader appeal than the merchandise.

In terms of dramatic structure, one of the primary reasons to have a female lead in an action film (princess, etc.) is so she can be placed in jeopardy and rescued. Sexual stereotyping being what it is, it's harder to place a male character in danger to the point where our sympathies and fears kick in. When a character like John McLane in the Die Hard films gets into jeopardy, the question is not, "Will he be rescued?" but rather, "Let's see how he fights his way out of this one." Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid... the princess needs a rescuer. On the other hand, in Beauty and the Beast, while Belle is threatened by Gaston, she's the one with gumption who brushes-off Gaston and who stands up to and tames Beast. Beast is the one who seems to be most in need of rescue (from the enchantment, and from attack by Gaston and the villagers), a spoiled little boy in a very big monster suit. Belle's love rescues Beast. Gaston is vanquished by his own failings. Belle? No matter how the final battle would have been resolved, she was on the sidelines, and likely to control whatever circumstance she next would encounter.

If Fantasyland as a whole is judged a bit effeminate, well, that's probably the way it has to be. The nursery generally is (not that there's anything wrong with that). The "Age of Chivalry" has that general reputation, too. Knights were supposed to clean up their violent and messy ways, pin their lady's handkerchiefs to their armor, write love poems, and otherwise play the game of courtly love. That's the kind of Fantasyland Disney portrays, a world of ladies and gentlemen. Pirates, scalawags, cowboys, and headhunters belong in Adventureland and Frontierland. Tomorrowland is a place inhabited by the Buzz Lightyears of the universe. Just remember that, in Peter Pan, the question isn't whether Michael and John are too grown-up for the nursery, but whether Wendy has outgrown it.

[NanaTink]

Well said, Dave!

Remember too, this is replacing Toon Town, which had zero appeal for 7-11 year old boys anyway!
I'm a mom of two boys and while they would not have liked the frilly princess stuff growing up, there is PLENTY in MK aimed right at that age.PoC, JC, Autopia, Buzz Lightyear, MonstersInc, Alien Escape, Haunted Mansion, Tom Sawyer Island, BTMRR, Splash Mt., Peter Pan, just off the top of my head. Why can't Fantasyland have some girl stuff, even if boys don't care much for it? The park is not teeming with girl stuff.
I think we all need to look at the park as a whole, and not just one land. Then it doesn't seem as overly girl-centric as you may have once thought.
JMHO

[typical disney dad]

Perfectly stated Dave.

Not everything in the park is going to appeal to everyone...DW and DD yawn during SW and don't like sitting through the Hall Of Presidents every time, and NONE of us like the Pooh Bear ride...while I am sure that the both would love nothing better than a TSMM style blaster to take out the singing kids in SW, or blast Tigger into the next chapter leaving a smoke trail behind him...it wouldn't fit the rides.

The park needs to keep building a diverse selection of attractions and rides, and that will inevitably mean that some new rides, attractions or locations will not appeal to everyone. That's life. Sorry, not everyone gets a trophy all the time.

My point is that when they build one that sounds girl-centric (again, having looked at the art and read about the designs in the Spring 2010 D23 magazine, I don't think it is too girly at all), people complain...but you don't hear the reverse when the shoe is on the other foot. Which is good, because if they were trying to make Space Mountain have Isabella's rainbow-riding Unicorn in it to draw in more girls, it would be just as wrong.

[mommadjones]

Originally Posted by NanaTink

Well said, Dave!

Remember too, this is replacing Toon Town, which had zero appeal for 7-11 year old boys anyway!
I'm a mom of two boys and while they would not have liked the frilly princess stuff growing up, there is PLENTY in MK aimed right at that age.PoC, JC, Autopia, Buzz Lightyear, MonstersInc, Alien Escape, Haunted Mansion, Tom Sawyer Island, BTMRR, Splash Mt., Peter Pan, just off the top of my head. Why can't Fantasyland have some girl stuff, even if boys don't care much for it? The park is not teeming with girl stuff.
I think we all need to look at the park as a whole, and not just one land. Then it doesn't seem as overly girl-centric as you may have once thought.
JMHO

I am also a mom a a 2 1/2yo boy and a 12yo girl, both of whom the expansion may not appeal to, however I still hope it goes through as planed or with little change. I am lucky as my kids are just happy to be in Disney and no matter how old or young they seem to be ageless in the sense that they love to do everything at disney no matter what age or gender its geared toward. I hope that never changes!

[thinkpink]

Originally Posted by jimmymac

Better late than never. Correcting what was abad idea. I wonder if the success of Harry Potter had anything to do with it?

Good point. I think it is a wise move on Disney's part.

[trixiedixie]

Originally Posted by disneynina

Here's another thought, (my brain isn't working today)! When my son & his family and I saw the "new" Alice in Wonderland, my son & I said all we could think of was what a great ride/show that could be at Magic Kingdom!!!! Imagine "falling" into the hole and ending up in Alice's dream!!!!

My son adores both Alice movies and she is very underrepresented in the parks. My son is 4 and his best moments last trip involved Alice kisses! I love that idea.
He loves the Jaberwocky and all the bad guys and shouts off with your head with sword in hand.

Dave wrote:The "Age of Chivalry" has that general reputation: Read on:

Also as a 4 year old his main thing this trip was Meeting People. We filled up 2 1/2 autograph books!
I had after 3 years of trying gotten CRT ressies (TABLE 1 THANK YOU!!!) for the 3 of us. Mikey was thrilled - he got his sword, a huge kiss from Sleeping Beauty, met the princesses and swore to protect them. As we were leaving Sleeping Beauty asked us why Dumbo needed rescuing. I said I loved it when we got home from last trip and we were talking remember to .... remember to... and Mikey said we need to Remember to Rescue Dumbo! AS we left the restaurant, meet and greets had just started and we met the fairy godmother. I took off down the side path and we ended up following the 2 evil stepsisters and the evil step mom. Well my precious son pipes up "GIMME MY SWORD!" The red head (Ive forgotten her name) starts in with "I didnt give you that kiss whose been kissing you?" The dark headed one chastised me for letting me even think of him getting them with his sword and the stepmom congratulated me on discipline as he had a Tommy Walker on!!!! They then took Mikey and started off down the path again walking and talking and loving on him, playing with him for a solid 15 minutes! By the end Mikey swore to protect all of them with his sword! Look at my new photo album Rescue Dumbo in a little bit and Ill post the tale.