New parenting issue: deceitfulness (same DD and DH may have been right!) LONG About This Page:

[graygables]

Which I *hate* when that happens!

I have recently learned that my 15yo DD has been being extremely deceitful, sneaky, and under-handed. Her DBF called *me* a few weeks ago to ask me about her talking to another boy from their virtual school everyday for 2 weeks (he found out thru the school grapevine). Apparantly, she has been calling this other guy late at night (and e-mailing and chatting online which is a *HUGE* no-no for her). When he brought it to her attention, DD told DBF that he "talks to other girls" which he said there was one who was just a friend and he quit talking to her when my DD told him it bothered her.

I had no idea this was going on until our $600 (yes, you read right....$600) cell phone bill arrived. Granted it was for 2 months, but $400 of it was hers. I hit the roof (needless to say) and she is paying for it, but *still*! I told her no more conversing with this other person (I don't even know him, we have rules about these things) esp since she has a boyfriend.

She has been caught in several serious lies over the years (bipolar,type II) so DH and psychologist suggested that we try a keylogger program. We ran it for an hour while she was supposed to be doing schoolwork yesterday and not only did my honors history student get a 54% on a history exam, but she spent 50 minutes (of an hour) in 4 different chat rooms (frequently using her real name and the name of our school district! ) as well as checking e-mail accounts I didn't even know she had (set them up at my parents' over the summer, I've learned) She knows that all of these things are strictly verboten (due to prior offenses) and to make matters worse, she is selectively deleting her computer history (doesn't know about the keylogger yet).

I knew she could lie, but I didn't realize that Little Miss Holier Than Thou (another long story!) was being quite this deceitful. I feel so sorry for her DBF b/c they are going to have to break it off before he gets in any deeper, since she is clearly still "hunting" and using him as a boyfriend "cover" until she finds something else, which is just *LOW* to me (she sent this other boy an e-mail just today about how jealous she is that he's interested in another girl...she's going to be a stalker before it's over with!)

She lost the use of her laptop computer months ago and is now limited to the "kid computer" in my office, but with homeschooling the other 2 as well, I can't be in there hovering all the time. I'm at a loss. I told her tonight that if she ever goes in another chat room, I'm closing her cell account and she will have no phone. I also told her that she would lose driving privileges, the ability to purchase a car, and even her job if the deceit continues, but she just pretty much sent me on a mission trip to Hell (you know the look I mean!)

I never even *thought* about sneaking out or doing anything like this in high school and my oldest is certainly nothing like this. I have no experience dealing with it, nor does anyone in my family, so does anyone have any suggestions? Ideas? What would you do in this situation?

I appreciate any and all feedback (and you can send me on a "mission trip", too if you think I need it! )

[ripkensnana]

I don't know what the laws are like where you live, but I learned (much to my chagrin) that here in Michigan, there's not a whole lot you can do. My then 15-year-old kept running away to be with her boyfriend, and we kept reporting her to the cops as a runaway. The one time that they bothered to pick her up, we had to go retreive her from the police station, because they wouldn't keep her, since she "hadn't committed a crime". There was absolutely nothing we could do to make her stay at home, short of chaining her to her bed (which is child abuse, which is a crime!). I was in rather close touch at that time with a police lieutenant who basically told me that there really was nothing I could do - the ball was entirely in Jenny's court, and that the law was on her side. Needless to say, she ended up getting pregnant, and is now married to the baby's father, expecting her second child, and not yet 18. I feel your pain, but as you can see, it could be worse...

[OffKilter_Lynn]

Dawn - while I don't have any advice (my DD is 10 but I see us heading in the same direction), I wish you the strength to get thru this and the strength to follow thru with what I'm sure will be some very unpopular decisions.

Keep your chin up, think happy thoughts and find your happy place! Keep us posted!

[Teresa]

Dawn -
I understand perfectly. My Step-DD was (and still is) very deceitful when she lived with us (she is now 27, she was with us from age 11, when I married her dad - he had her already - to 16, then for a year here and there)
She has not changed, but we have! We no longer have the expectations that we did with her, and so do not get as hurt by her actions.
Couple of things, and this is from being a mom for 21 years.
1. Does she really need the cell phone NOW? What is she doing with it? Personally, I see no reason for a 15 yr. old that does not drive, or that does for that matter to have one.

2. It is perfectly fine and normal to be "shopping" at 15. The only way that she is going to be able to decide what type of man suits her best is to try out a few. So many girls that I meet now have 1 boyfriend all through H.S. and College, get married, have a few kids, and then realize that they wanted someone different.

3. The internet thing is a big problem. I would take it away. Or, get rid of all the E-mail addresses you can find, set one up for her, and do not let her know the password to sign on. Of course, this means that you will know when she is on and for how long.

4. does she have friends? does she get to see them regularly? Step-DD's mom took everything away from her as a punishment at times, and the thing that wwe found helped was not taking her friends away. Everyone needs someone to talk to, and for a 15 year old girl, it is NOT mom!

[Chrissi]

Dawn,



I'm sure my parents know your pain. As a teenager, I was a parent's worst nightmare. At 16, they kicked me out. I had a very strong, driving need to finish highschool, fortunately. I stayed with anyone who'd let me sleep on their couch for about a year, worked as much as I could, then moved in with my dad's second ex-wife. She taught me some pretty basic things like balancing a checkbook, billpaying, budgeting, and responsibility - things my parents expected me to know or learn, but never taught me.



While this won't offer a solution, it may offer some hope. I finished highschool. I'm taking college classes. I'm married (to a wonderful man). I have a son who is well-behaved and a joy to be with and I didn't get pregnant with him until long after I was married and settled down. And my parents tell me nearly weekly how proud they are of me.



What I needed was for someone other than my parents to see what was going on and say 'I can I help' without arguing or grounding or judging.



And, hey, I turned out okay! Your DD will, too. Sounds like she just has some maturing to do before she can be trusted to make decisions on her own.

[graygables]

Some clarifications:

She has a cell phone to be able to call me from work, since I'm her ride, and to be able to speak with her DBF (these are long distance on landlines) I was trying to give her a bit of responsibility and she took it too far.

I understand "shopping", but we are a "courtship" family (as is DBFs) which is a bit more serious than just dating around and you don't sit there and tell some guy that you love him while you are telling another guy how jealous you are that he likes someone else. It's very much a "have her cake and eat it, too" and I just think it's *wrong*. If she doesn't like her DBF (she certainly doesn't respect his feelings), then she needs to break up with him before moving on, it's not like she's looking for a job and it's easier to find one when you have one.

Thank you all for your feedback so far, it really is giving me a lot to think about.

[HiddenMickey]

I haven't had any experience with this type of situation, but had a couple thoughts I thought I'd throw out to you Dawn.

Does you daughter have outside activities besides work? It seems sad to me that your daughter is dating on-line at her age, surely she must have places she can meet fellows that are appropriate for her in your hometown .

I would definitely take away the phone from her....for a good long time. $400 in bills is so far overboard that I can't even imagine it. She should be able to call you from her workplace to pick her up on one of their phones (right?) and she won't be needing to talk to the long-distance boyfriend anymore, I guess. And find some way to limit when and how your daughter can use the internet.....do you have parental controls on the ISP you use (we use MSN and it does and works great)?

Sounds like your family might be in line for a bit of counseling before anything else happens. Do you belong to a church or is there a women's center in your town that could help? You need to find out why she is acting like she is, why she feels the need to be decieptful, why she can't follow the family rules, and what you can change in your family dynamics to help her.

I think Beaner's post was very telling as well....interesting that she needed someone besides a parent to talk to and help her through her tough times. Maybe your daughter needs some sort of mentor as well.

I feel so bad for you all. I wish I had some words of wisdom. I just pray that I make it through my kid's teen years without your pain. {{Hugs}} -HiddenMickey

[PoohNTigger]

Wow sorry to hear about your DD. Sending tons of your way to help you out.

[LBAK]

Dawn,
I sure can sympathize with you. I have an 18 yo DD who too can be sneaky at times. She got her cell phone at 16 and did the same thing your DD did with the phone bill. Instead of taking it away (she needed to call me to pick her up from work too) my DH and I sat down with her and picked a plan that she could afford with her work salary. If she went over she paid not me. She did go over and yes she paid. That lasted a very short time. Now she stays on her plan. Maybe that can be an option for you too.

As far as the boyfriend. I listen and offer advice only when asked. My DD found a new boyfriend and started seeing him while still with the other boy. She knew I felt this was very wrong but she had to live with her actions, not me. After doing this for a few weeks she was strong enough to break off with the old BF. I think at this age they like the security of feeling they belong. Maybe you DD is seeing if this will last and then she will make the move to break up with him. Like I said I don't condone it but it seems like quite a few teenagers do this. Heck I even know an adult who does this

I too had my problems with DD and the internet and I removed all her screen names and she was forbidden from the internet for 6 months and then we renegotiated. If she had homework she used my screen name so I could follow her actions.

I hope some of this helps. Parenting is trial and error and I think we're all doing a pretty decent job in the long run. Here's some for a great day.

[poohmaine]

We were in family counselling for about 6 months with my daughter (she has ODD). We learned two things that have been valuable.



1. Don't be afraid to let your daughter fail, often that is the only way she will learn consequences, as kids this age will not believe anything their parents tell them. Be there to offer support after the consequence. You can make your opinion known, but don't expect her to listen, at least not now. This is not easy to do, believe me, but it is for their own good.



2. Learn what issues are the most important and enforce those. Let others slide. For example, issues concerning safety and schoolwork are non-negotiable, but if her room isn't as clean as we would like, we let that go, or else we would always be fighting.



These two things, along with consistent enforcement of rules (no matter how much whining or screaming) has greatly improved our daughter's behavior. Kids like rules and boundaries, no matter how much they say otherwise. It is very important that you and your husband are dealing with her exactly the same. Don't let her play you off each other (my daughter tried this many times, even telling my husband that I was running his life, etc. We just laughed).



For the cell phone, you can say that calls are limited to you for rides and emergencies only. If she makes other calls, the cell phone is gone. Period. End of story. No extra chances.



For the computer, sites visited are limited to those sights she needs for schoolwork and perhaps one or two interests. If she goes elsewhere, computer is gone. Period. End of story. Password-protect the computer so she can't use it while you are busy elsewhere. Ability to use the computer freely must be earned back after a certain period of time following the rules.



As far as the boyfriend thing goes, tell her your opinion, and then let it go. Trust her to do the right thing. And if she doesn't, she will have to deal with the social consequences.



PM me if you have any other questions.