Dog advice please!
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mooshcat · 02-20-2013, 06:10 PM

Hi all. I know there a few dog lovers out there and I'm really in need of some advice or the best place/forum to find it...

So here's the situation....we had 2 german shorthaired pointers age 11 & 6. Sadly we lost the older one about 3 weeks ago to cancer and we were (are) devastated. The pair of them were inseparable and bonded from day one. We always said that we would have to get another companion for Nell when Wynn went as she wouldn't cope alone. So of course when Wynn died Nell went into a funk. So we decided to get a pup. We got Fern (another gsp age 7 wks) at the weekend and Nell seems to hate her. We followed the same method as we did when we introduced Wynn to Nell- gentle and careful but Nell seems terrified. She has never shown any aggression to other dogs but on the second day she actually snapped at Fern and bit her on the face. She drew a little blood. Now I'm in a right state. Maybe introducing another dog so soon was a terrible idea but as naive as it may sound now, we really didn't anticipate a problem, we really thought it would be the best thing. So now I'm constantly on edge and the outlook just seems bleak. Nell does show interest when Fern is sleeping and has sniffed and lay beside her but when she's awake and being a boisterous pup she growls and really seems scared. Luckily we do have a large kennel outside where she can go for a time out and we do have a crate for Fern where she can go, so at the moment we are trying to limit their together time to only when the pup is sleepy. It's hard work but I just hoped that someone may have some advice or if anyone had been in the same situation? Just hoping that there will be light at the end of the tunnel and things will get better as right now it doesn't feel as if they will.

Thanks

Jayne

JoanneS · 02-21-2013, 08:13 AM

I'm not an expert, but maybe the older dog is still grieving and isn't ready for a new friend. I have two dogs, one is 2 years older than the other, and they do "bicker" on occasion. It's mostly jealousy over attention or food. I would give it some time; the older dog wants to assert her dominance and claim her territory. I think that's natural.

From what you said, it doesn't sound like they're having dog fights in your living room, so I don't think the older dog wants to take out the younger one, maybe just teach her a lesson. They will work it out.

CinderAbby · 02-21-2013, 08:49 AM

Sometimes you have to let them work it out on their own and truthfully, it sounds to me like you're doing the right thing. You're keeping a watchful eye and letting them get to know one another however, I do have a question - who are you putting in the crate/the kennel outside? The older dog or the younger dog? Back when my mother tried adopting a dog (which our Goldens didn't like), she did everything wrong. She gave more attention to the new dog, let it up on the bed, up on the furniture - basically she let it do everything our "established" dogs were allowed to do and our vet said that's the worst thing you can do. It "raises" the new dogs standing in the pack above where it should be. So I guess that's the only advice I can give - give your older dog all the attention and let the new dog learn it's place (even if it includes being growled at by the older dog). Good luck,

GingerJ · 02-21-2013, 10:04 AM

Jayne,
Not a lot of experience with dogs, but for cats, we followed the general advice of leaving the NEW cat in one room of the house so the other cats could get accustomed to his smell and being around him.

You're past that point, of course. After we introduced Lucky into the rest of the house, he would start fights occasionally with our older male cat, the dominant of the original two. They were testing each other to determine who would be the dominant one. I asked the vet, who said it's probably best to let them fight it out unless they start hurting each other. They still had confrontations (sometimes just stare-offs) up until daVinci passed away, but they weren't big fights.

All this to say: Sounds like they're testing each other to try to get the hierarchy straightened out, plus the puppy is of course more playful and active than your older one. I'm sure there's plenty of info on-line, and your vet would be a good person to ask.

Good luck--I'm sure it will work out. Six years is a little up-there in age, but not elderly, and she'll no doubt adjust in time. I learned from my cats' situation that these fights generally aren't as serious as they seem to us--perhaps it was an accident when they drew blood that time. Keep looking for resources--I know there's lots out there, because that's how I found info on introducing new cats.

Ginger

apqsmom · 02-21-2013, 09:56 AM

My daughter just got a new pup in Nov and our 5 year old schnauzer was not very happy about it. Clara belle (the schnauzer) would snarl and snap and put him in his place. She still does it occasionally and Henry (shih tzu) just goes back for more. We made sure to give Clara more attention as we figured she felt she was getting replaced. It took several weeks but now they get along pretty well!

I'm sure it will just take time! It is so hard to let them work it out but they need to establish dominance.

Good luck to you! I'd love to see a pic of your dogs! I attached a christmas picture of my shaggy dogs. (they've had haircuts recently)

**Eeyore Tattoo** · 02-21-2013, 10:04 AM

I agree, you may have jumped the gun getting a puppy so soon, Older dogs aren't always happy with pesky pups. But Fern is there now.
I would start by taking them on walks together, spending lots of supervised time together & keeping the Pup in the same room, crated for now. Older dogs to teach puppies dog manners, & that they are the alpha in the home. Puppies like to get in the older dogs face. Nell is teaching Fern how to be a good dog with proper manners. Just be the top alpha Mom watching over their interactions & give them time to bond..
Sorry for your loss..
(We have raised trained & shown Whippets for over 30 years)

shazza · 02-21-2013, 02:47 PM

I don't have the answer, but you may want to check out this site:

MySmartPuppy.com There is a forum with several experienced trainers, and many experienced dog owners. Also go through the library of articles and blog posts by Sarah Wilson.

If you post the question as posed here, I imagine you'll get some help (although it will probably be similar to what's been stated here - never hurts to ask)

Huntermom · 02-21-2013, 04:18 PM

We have been a two dog family for a while and had to get a new dog relatively soon when we lost the older dog. Our younger dog was too depressed being and only dog. When we first went to two dogs, the older dog we had did not like other dogs. Fortunately, we adopted a very submissive puppy and the older dog adjusted. In the beginning, we watched them carefully and never left the puppy alone with the older dog.

Our current older dog is an alpha female. She grew up with the very submissive puppy and had her paws full when we brought home Charlie. She has disciplined Charlie, who had no manners and was huge when we got him at just over a year. She will occasionally snarl at him three years down the road but it is usually around food. he will not go after food if it is near her in spite of being twice her size.

We have always fed the dogs in their crates so it is clear what food belongs to whom. Zoe, the older dog always goes first-walks, treats, affection.

I think our older dog wants to make sure she remains number 1.

Your situation sounds pretty typical. I agree with Darlene but I would also caall the vet if you feel you need more behavioral advice.

Good luck and so sorry about losing your dog.

Kelly66 · 02-21-2013, 04:46 PM

The dog trainer I use has online classes for multiple dog households. Pamela Dennison's Positive Motivation Dog Training in Washington, New Jersey
I haven't taken that class, but I enrolled my surviving dog (in three-six week courses of in-person classes) after our older dog died in order to help relieve his anxiety. It was very helpful, and the trainer worked tirelessly and even helped me find another dog. I keep emailing her and calling her for help and she is quite patient and helpful. I like her ideas. She has many dogs and has overcome many problems. I haven't read any of her books ,yet, but the other people in my class with multiple dogs have found them helpful and full of insight. If you can't use Pamela Dennison, I would suggest local clicker training classes and perhaps read Click to Calm -Healing the Aggressive Dog for general training tips.

Kelly66 · 03-09-2013, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly66

The dog trainer I use has online classes for multiple dog households. Pamela Dennison's Positive Motivation Dog Training in Washington, New Jersey
I haven't taken that class, but I enrolled my surviving dog (in three-six week courses of in-person classes) after our older dog died in order to help relieve his anxiety. It was very helpful, and the trainer worked tirelessly and even helped me find another dog. I keep emailing her and calling her for help and she is quite patient and helpful. I like her ideas. She has many dogs and has overcome many problems. I haven't read any of her books ,yet, but the other people in my class with multiple dogs have found them helpful and full of insight. If you can't use Pamela Dennison, I would suggest local clicker training classes and perhaps read Click to Calm -Healing the Aggressive Dog for general training tips.

I am taking the online class for multiple dog households starting March 9th-she even has a special going right now. I need to learn how to upload video of what my dogs are doing to You-Tube so we can use it in class. Anybody know? I hope things are going well with your dogs.

mooshcat · 02-22-2013, 07:54 AM

Thanks so much for all the advice! I think I thought this wasn't the normal reaction as we had it so easy last time. Things are going ok but slow. Nell is interested when Fern is calm and sleepy but afraid when she starts jumping so we trying to limit their association during the 'mad half hour'. Fern has been designated our downstairs shower room as her place with her bed, crate, toys etc. Nell can then be free to roam as she usually would and goes into her outside kennel as part of her normal routine. Hopefully things will improve more once they can go out on walks together. I'm not sure on the procedure in the US but here in the UK it's recommended not to take pups out until they have had all their immunisations at 10 weeks. That should be 2 more weeks. Hopefully I will be able to post some pics and I will certainly check out the recommended websites and books. THANK YOU!!!!